Obviously, but it's a combination of both. Is Apprentice still the same Apprentice despite having alts, one semi-retired player, and a player who never played CL? Masters is literally what Apprentice was without the clan tag.

If a clan X retains active players who accounted for one third of their slots (6/18) and one third of their scored points then it is guaranteed to retain its spot.
If clan X splits and X does not retain both one third of their slots and of their points, another new clan Y can claim the spot if they have active players accounting for one third of that clan's slots and points. If X didn't meet the requirements, while two different clans Y and Z do and both claim the spot then the spot is awarded to neither clan and both must start from the bottom.
Say, Clan X got 90pts and needs 30pts to retain its spot in CL11. Player A, B and C played on a 3v3 tournament where they won 15pts but now only Player A is left in Clan X. In this case player A would account for 5 points(not 15)
If a player goes AWOL (or is suspended from CL), he doesn't count toward meeting the 1/3 of players requirement. None of the points he won count either. If this player was on a team, the points will be pro-rated.

If someone's been banned by the Ethics Panel why should we take anything they have to say seriously? Beren and Deadman were happy to bend the rules in their favour whenever it suited them, so why is the community forced to abide by a rule written by two convicted cheaters? The common sense solution to this situation is to simply create a new panel that will reverse every bad decision Beren and Deadman made.

Masters is literally what Apprentice was without the clan tag.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Masters still has other players who were not apps. Therefore what was Apps is now Masters, but Masters is not Apps. Does that make sense? What I'm saying is that this fair enough for the Apps players, but the other Masters players are (unfairly imo) benefitting from this change.

Would them moving to Apprentice be an unfair advantage? If not what's the difference. It's literally the clan tag we're playing under that is different.

Hm, good point. Didn't quite see it that way.

Edited 4/9/2020 02:43:35

I'd also like to add one thing to this discussion; Cowboy asked for volunteers for the CL panel before the start of this Clan League; some people like Farah and Otterycat stepped up, but overall there were too little people. The only reason I'm part of it, or that there's a lot of masters there is that he had to ask people to join 1 on 1.

Now ofcourse you can whine about anything you want, there's a freedom of speech, but I'll gladly lay down my part of CL panel if someone is willing to put in the work rather than just complain about the ones doing it.

Also want to add that I'm quite disappointed in some of the people posting here. I get that it sucks for FC and Lu Fredd to have to start at the bottom while seeing another clan take a spot in A/B instantly, but you seem to forget that we as Apprentice chose this merger collectively. It's not that we have one third of the points, it's that we have all of them in masters now. You seem to be disregarding the fact that we did in fact move up from Q's to B to A, and whether or not we relegate, that process is still valid. I get that it feels unfair in a way, but if we had recruited them no one would say a thing. In fact mod and moto are already playing and no one did. So this discussion is literally about an emblem in front of our names, and a lot of spite.

I may be biased as well, but if all of GG merged with all of Lu Fredd would any of you say that they should start at Lu Fredds spot rather than GGs? Regardless of which clan they moved into?

@MW I get that you don't want to treat this lightly, but the rule as Glass stated it does exist, and I do not agree this is Audit Panel material. You can revise and correct the rule if you find that necessary, but this is not meant to be some courtroom drama where half our members are left behind with nothing.

but if we had recruited them no one would say a thing.

It was the realisation that I'd have had no problem with Apps recruiting all the other Masters players that caused me to rethink my opinion. Something about it still doesn't sit right with me, but I've definitely got no arguments against the statement that "it is only the tag" that is different.

just a question ?
Why you want absolutely have Master tag when you fought with Apps tag to get there?
Why not just recruit Masters players in your clan ? (Apps)
EVERYONE WOULD BE HAPPY :)

Edited 4/9/2020 10:18:13

I have no problem with Masters players beeing in A/B!
i only have a problem with Master tag beeing in Div A/B cause it s not fair for others tag

{TLA} LND , Man every (good) player can change tag and play in A or B instead of starting back from D, I don't get what's the problem for Master players.

Bim! yes they should use the App tag but if they prefer the Master one,,,, who cares.

If the Apprentice players want to hand their clan spot to the Master clan, I don't have a problem with it. I think it's their call and choice if they are want to merge collectively into Masters.

If you say no, the Master's players you'd assume will join Apps. So, you're not changing anything fundamentally. It's going to happen in the form of Apprentice or in the form of Masters. It's the same group of players.

That's the way it is.

And I'm simply letting them go for the cosmetic change, Masters from how we know them is finished, Apps is finished. This is a completely new brand of Masters. In time, will it just be a hardcore elite that will be playing in Master clan like the old times or will Apprentice players actually play? Will the Apps players actually want to leave being unsatisfied with how the big boi players take all the slots? What if they want their slot back? But all the Masters's players are on the slots?

That's the secret risk they take.

Initially I found the rule very strange, but it all makes sense now.

Dropping Masters back in div D will only ruin the CL season cause the clans in div D have little to no chance of beating Masters, and Master players have to play with players that are less skilled, which could take the fun out of the game for them. After all, CL is made what it is by the players who play in it, and not by the names of the clans those players play for.

Give Masters the slot of App (div B probably) and remove App from the CL, get this drama over with. Also, the rule is fine, but might need a bit more explaining by some that is better at explaining things than me.

EDIT: of course the current CL players from App have to agree with, but I kinda assume they do

Edited 4/9/2020 10:57:57

@JK_3>just a note:If u can defeat opponents like FC or DD,u can surely beat apps-masters if u play better against them ofc.Except if u are talking about promotion coz yeah i agree that the chances for promotion are close to zero..As it was in CL12 fighting against FC-DD,first place.

Dropping Masters back in div D will only ruin the CL season cause the clans in div D have little to no chance of beating Masters, and Master players have to play with players that are less skilled, which could take the fun out of the game for them.

That's not the point; the point is whether Masters/Apps are different clans, now that the Apps players have all moved to Masters. They're not, but it would be the same thing if the Masters players had moved to Apps, except the name would be different. Because of this I now see no problem with this.

Edited 4/9/2020 12:23:23

Well, you know the difference they are ? In what sense it is not fair ?
It's a story of awards and ethics!
We all play the CL to put our name on the charts! (or the name of our clan)
Master won 2 CL and if they merged with Apps and getting their spot as Master!
they will be able to have another title next season if Apps stays in div A or in 2 seasons if Apps goes to B instead 4 seasons like all new clan who started CL in div D ! And Master know that ! that s why they did that !
so it s not fair for other clan !

There's no guarantee Masters will be able to win the title again immediately, but even so, what difference would that make if it's Apps that won it?

Mod asked us which we preferred, go to masters, go to Apprentice, or start a new clan. This wasn't some foul play move by masters to get the spot, it was the preference of those within Apprentice.

But i like the way zev thinks. That way we can get way more prestige for winning cl for the 3rd time, so what we did was definitely the right decision. Glory to masters in excelsis

it is not fair,the masters should Play from D like every other clan. If not it ruins the idea of the league where you have to fight to get to the division you deserve

Relajate want to join Apprentice? We got a few new open spots, but they are limited

I'll disagree with Zev this time..masterapps level is low enough to win a DivA title as it is right now and maybe by far..!I don't think f.e. that they can take a better place than Lynx or One,as it is right now.Maybe they can reach 3rd place and that's that.
Past glory..glory expired...