FC talking about rules and how the community can change it.. mod talking about french/italians persons without sense every time..

IRise say a opinion, mod insult him in a public chat... he just have to be ashamed and all people that follow him!

IRise is a troll, anyone who takes him seriously on this matter, doesn't know him very well.

I think on these circumstances Masters should be allowed to play in Division A/Divison B.
And I don't think clans should be allowed to vote to prevent this from happening.
(However vote will be good to see what the community think about it - for possible changes in future)

IRise say a opinion, mod insult him in a public chat... he just have to be ashamed and all people that follow him!

If I say you're an idiot, is it an insult, or just stating an opinion? From your post it seems it'd be the latter.

Apprentice had the spot. They give it to masters.
on ownership point this is correct.

Apprentice players that reached that spot passed to Masters.
on players point this is correct that they don't have to start again from D.

The only issue is that sub clans are like team#2 of the principal clan, therefore most clan play alone while others have a security valve.

On the other hand to have 2 competitive teams for CL is no easy feat and they had to climb the rank and be recognized to have ppl that wanted to be Apprentice. more commitment, more possibility.

VIW officially support the APP-Master affair.

Just put the turtles back in A because we're cooler than both masters and apprentice.

Cowboy is in charge now, so it will be considered "for the good of the league" because it's too much work to do anything different.

Hopefully one day Masters, Apprentice, Lynx and 101st will all be in the same division. We'll call it "The Republicans"

@Oh>(about Turtles)Welcome back!
So..if Turtles start playing again,they'll start from DivD,right..?
Why everyone wants to play in DivA while all the strong teams are slowly gathering in DivD,just wondering...

Still salty about me letting BR into CL, huh Bonsai?

I also think Turtles should be brought back to Division A and Masters should be forced to join Division D and become a training clan for apprentice!

There's seems to be a lot of pettiness going on in this thread.

Apprentice owns a slot in A and likely a slot in B next season. All the Apprentice players who played in Clan League moved to Master's.

Master's gets to claim Apprentice's slot because Apprentice does not have >33% (or whatever the cutoff is I didn't look it up) of their CL points and Master's does. If instead the Apps players had made a new clan called "Cowboy Hood and his merry men," that clan would get to claim Apprentice's slot.

If we had all the Master's players wanting to join Apprentice there would be no argument that Apprentice would play in B (or A if they somehow don't relegate).

So this amounts to a complaint about clan tag, which is just really petty.

I think I lost some brain cells reading all this. One thing I noticed is that over this whole debate, no one has clarified what exactly the rule that allows Masters to go back to A was. I know what it is though, and someone may have said it when I was skimming through all the posts.

I know I have no say in what comes out of this, but I agree that Masters should start from Div. D and not get right back in Div. A just for the sake of one stupid rule.

So why are you turning a blind eye to Irise insulting cowboy and spitting on the work he has done? Mod just retaliated. Whilst that doesnt excuse mod, it doesnt mean he is the only problem here.

@min you are the blind one here if you still think i spitted on cowboy's work or insulted him. i explicitly stated that on discord and you simply chose to ignore it. do not twist the truth regardless of your stance in this matter.

So this amounts to a complaint about clan tag, which is just really petty.

Essentially.

Clan league/tag/rule drama?

Quelle surprise!

Hi Cloud.

I think I lost some brain cells reading all this. One thing I noticed is that over this whole debate, no one has clarified what exactly the rule that allows Masters to go back to A was. I know what it is though, and someone may have said it when I was skimming through all the posts.

I know I have no say in what comes out of this, but I agree that Masters should start from Div. D and not get right back in Div. A just for the sake of one stupid rule.


@Viking I stated the rule and why people are being petty by opposing it.

The rule is claiming spots for a clan. If you have a cutoff of points for a clan in the previous clan league while that clan DOES NOT have the cutoff they get to claim that clan's spot. In this scenario Master's claims Apprentice's spot because everyone who played CL for Apprentice joined Master's. For the record it is unlikely Master's will play in A next season. Most likely scenario is they play in B.

I know this would never happen but imagine that Let's Fight, J.P., Axl, Dreamworker, Brak, Thor, TurboTT117, AlexB, T54321, Glardharmion, and Kicker decided to break off from Hawks and create a new clan called "Eagles." That new clan would get Hawks' slot in B because it's functionally the same clan that played the slot the previous season.

Edited 4/8/2020 22:53:49

Multiple people asked me to react, so the following will be my (edited) official statement as a member of the audit panel:


I can already see that is likely going to be case for the audit panel. Given the ongoing discussion, it's already clear now that no matter which decision is taken, people will want to amend it. Since Cowboy is in Masters, it may be appropriate that an independent body takes a look at this, but I have since been told that he will not take the decision (alone).

If this case were to end up at the audit panel, I would prefer the following structure. To avoid an overload of repeat discussion, can we bundle the evidence and arguments. Ideally, there'd be 4 "reports" on this case:

• One by the people taking the actual decision in which they explain their arguments for this ruling.
  
• One in which all arguments in favour of giving Masters the spot of Apprentice are summarized (focus on objective arguments and the rules, not flavour or subjective pro-Masters bias).
  
• One in which all arguments against giving Masters the spot of Apprentice are summarized (focus on objective arguments and the rules, not flavour or subjective anti-Masters bias).
  
• One by people who were around and involved in the writing of this rule detailed the process and reasoning of the rule and why and how it was applied in the past, this should not include a preference for a ruling in this case but inform the audit panel on the nature of precedents and earlier interpretation.

For the second and third report, people giving arguments in this topic best agree on someone who can summarize and collect the relevant information.
For the fourth report, this information has reached me already.

If necessary, the audit panel (me+Styxie) will have a look at these reports.

This post was edited to make it clear that I no way intend to pull this matter towards audit panel or that I believe audit panel should take the decision. This is and remains the responsability of the organisers or a panel appointed by them. (i.e. Cowboy, CL panel or an appropriately appointed panel such as Ethics) Audit panel will only be involved in people believe they did not follow the rules or fair judgement in their decision process.

Hence, the original post was made with the tone in this topic in mind. I perceive it to be very likely that there will be complaints afterwards and the audit panel will sadly have to be involved. Do note that I would actually prefer that this will not happen as I value my free time. If I had a lot of spare time for things like this, Clan Cup would still be up and running!

Consequently, you can ignore the instructions above for now (and hopefully they will not be needed).





For my personal opinion:

I don't know enough about it yet to have a strong opinion, but I find it hard to read through some of the reactions and general tone of discussion in this topic.
All I can say: if this is important for you, take the steps proposed above and present your arguments like a respectful reasonable adult. If it's not important, don't lose your sleep over it and don't behave like a troll bot, we have enough of those elsewhere on the internet.

Edited 4/9/2020 16:39:07

Just to be explicit about the rule in question:



The following lays out the scenarios in which a clan's spot could change hands:
If a clan X retains active players who accounted for one third of their slots (6/18) and one third of their scored points then it is guaranteed to retain its spot.
If clan X splits and X does not retain both one third of their slots and of their points, another new clan Y can claim the spot if they have active players accounting for one third of that clan's slots and points. If X didn't meet the requirements, while two different clans Y and Z do and both claim the spot then the spot is awarded to neither clan and both must start from the bottom.
Say, Clan X got 90pts and needs 30pts to retain its spot in CL11. Player A, B and C played on a 3v3 tournament where they won 15pts but now only Player A is left in Clan X. In this case player A would account for 5 points(not 15)
If a player goes AWOL (or is suspended from CL), he doesn't count toward meeting the 1/3 of players requirement. None of the points he won count either. If this player was on a team, the points will be pro-rated.



Edit: With the audit panel officially stepping in this will be my last post on the matter. I think my opinion is clearly that the rule is fine and that Master's has every right to exercise it.

Edited 4/8/2020 23:00:53

I think basically everyone ignores one fundamental thing:

a good community respect all opinions.. ok we have rules and we have to respect it. But we have to heard all opinion and try to keep calm when we talk between us. I was the first who said "i prefer Master in A/B", but when I saw in discord chat and now in this thread how mod managing this situation with his commentary and with his bully style he broke my balls literally and he deserve division M only for be rude. Master of Desaster lost few points in my opinion. Cowboy doing the hard work, yes. But all clans deserve this clan league and deserve say his opinion. So I hope the next discussion will be different. Bye