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Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-06 21:18:58


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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The way I understand all this: Farah clearly doesn't understand that being busy with school feels a lot like being stuck in war-torn Azerbaijan to some teens. I sincerely hope that kid from Outlaws can get a plane out of his school so he can join the next game.

EDIT: /sarcasm for those who may not have caught it.

Edited 10/7/2020 10:13:09
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-06 23:56:38


Coronel Gavilan
Level 59
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Tbf @Math Wolf, you cant compare "busy with school" with a war. And a war like Azerbaijan and Armenia have for decades and decades and decades even before the Soviet Union times... I support this Farah's move. It's an uncommon situation.

I suggest a list of "extreme situations".
1) wars 2) floods 3) death of a relative 4) player actually dying...

etc.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 00:07:20


Coronel Gavilan
Level 59
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Substitution

Clan: USSR

Deadman's RoR 3v3

Player out: alex82500 https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=8645862111

Player in: China https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=1954125027
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 00:07:31


Coronel Gavilan
Level 59
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Substitution

Clan: USSR

Strategic MME

Player out: zaky http://warzone.com/Profile?p=8347107640

Player in: Eóinob https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=7779939574

Edited 10/8/2020 17:16:48
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 01:29:55


LND 
Level 61
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So, now Farah has so kindly supplied the details, I think I am now able to weigh in with my opinion.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to allow taking over someone’s account under such circumstances, however things seem a bit complicated to me.
1. The rules do not state that such allowances can be made.
2. The rules also are very clear that this is what the extra 15 days are for; these are intended for emergencies like this.
Now, Timi said alexclusive was already eating into his banked time. I don’t know whether the cause of this was Warzone being blocked because of the war, if so then I have no problems with it. But if it was because of stalling, then this really isn’t okay; the banked time is for emergencies, and if you don’t have enough to get through emergencies because you have been stalling when there is no emergency, that is your own fault.
Since I don’t know all the answers to this, I am tentatively supporting this decision. However, I think if such allowances are going to be made, the rules should be updated to include examples of what kind of situation is appropriate for these exceptions (e.g. they must be unforeseeable events, within reason) and (if we want to get really technical) what kind of proof of said emergency is required to make the exception application legal.
Hope that all makes sense!

Edited 10/7/2020 01:31:38
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 08:48:44


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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tough decision...
tbh I would not have made it that way. I can understand both views.
Problem might becone:
Who knows how others get their boot/non-join. If others than alex would have had this issue they likely kept silent and took this boot as penalty (shit happens). It will be hard to draw the line...
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 09:09:53


master of desaster 
Level 66
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That's the beauty of someone dealing with cl on his own. It doesn't matter if there are precendences, farah can just decide the next case again as he pleases to find the (his) best solution. It's not complicated and doesn't need the rulebook to be rewritten.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 09:18:48

(deleted)
Level 62
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For sure this is exciting drama.

I think Farah has made the right decision.

I do think there needs to be some rule or at least an agreed process to ask for a takeover. But a very vague one that leaves the power with the organiser.
With no rule, you could get a lot of requests for help..

A player disappearing, quitting, retiring is the same as a player dying. So, death can't be a good enough reason for a takeover, so why would being sick?
School, exam etc, there are 12 subs. Exams periods are known months in advance, if you can't do it, sub out.

Now that the option exists, should we all be sharing our passwords? Or he was able to sms his password out from the embassy.

I think the ability to take over accounts could be only for Extreme events and for a maximum of 2 turns?
Flood, war, hurricane etc. I can imagine if your house is flattened you can have a week off (+ original bank). Likely it's even possible to compare player's flag to the news as evidence.

Otherwise, sickness, death of a relative etc, these can be dealt with in 2 weeks of bank.

Additionally, there should be second part to the rule. If the original player does not come back, the game is forfiet.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 09:25:02


Farah♦ 
Level 61
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I don't like repeating myself, but I think the key part to take away here is that there is no new rule. There is a rulebook that covers most situations. However, it can never cover everything; the rulebook would have to be infinite. We had an ethics panel that decided how much a punishment would be by looking at the spirit and intention of the rules. That is what I do now. Let's just say that if you have a situation like this, contact me. There will be no change to the rules because of this exemption. It would be impossible to draw the line anyways.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 09:28:36


JK_3 
Level 63
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1. The rules do not state that such allowances can be made.
2. The rules also are very clear that this is what the extra 15 days are for; these are intended for emergencies like this.
Now, Timi said alexclusive was already eating into his banked time. I don’t know whether the cause of this was Warzone being blocked because of the war, if so then I have no problems with it. But if it was because of stalling, then this really isn’t okay; the banked time is for emergencies, and if you don’t have enough to get through emergencies because you have been stalling when there is no emergency, that is your own fault.
...
However, I think if such allowances are going to be made, the rules should be updated to include examples of what kind of situation is appropriate for these exceptions (e.g. they must be unforeseeable events, within reason) and (if we want to get really technical) what kind of proof of said emergency is required to make the exception application legal.
1. The last rules covers all missing rules: "We will use our best judgement as a panel to resolve issues which are not covered by the rules listed above." Since the panels are gone now, its just Farah that makes the call if something is not covered by the written rules.

2. Banked time is (in my opinion) to be used in cases where some extra discusion time is needed for team games, and for short rl-issues (e.g. school project or something). An actual war is not a short issue, so I find it fair that someone takes over Alex account in this case.

3. Making a rule for every emergency would be more than overkill, and would prob cause lots of loopholes. Therefor the powers of the panel to make decisions on the fly, are the best option there is, since they can review things on a case to case basis, looking at all circumstances and consequences.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 15:56:11


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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I think it is wise to make a rule from any precident you establish, even if an edge case. It may happen again and the best thing to do is be consistent, unless you learn a good reason to change that rule.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 16:46:55


Hades 
Level 64
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Thanks so much Farah for all the effort you've put in to the league, the amount of shit you have to deal with is insane and I'm not even including discord.

Plat, trying to take advantage of Alex's situation to get 5 points is a tad low.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 17:25:34


lineal2012
Level 62
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Farah is right with his decision.
No need to create a new rule in my opinion.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 17:28:40


King Fungus
Level 58
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King fungus MVP for TBA
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 17:48:41


bliss machine
Level 62
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You have my support, Farah.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 19:41:13


linberson 
Level 63
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Rule 287: If there is war and the government shuts down the internet you may hand over your account details to a friendly player of your choice.
If the internet is turned back on you have to immediately take back possession of your account and create a new password.

Rule 287a: If you are an outlaw you may not do this.

Rule 287b: If you are an outlaw but play in group B you may be exempt from rule 287a due to pity. Apply to the chair of the pity committee, krunx.

Rule 287c: If you are an outlaw but openly diss Platinum you may be exempt from rule 287a.

Remember to fill out form 37c in order to apply for rule 287. You find it on the Clan League discord channel named improvements.
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-07 19:55:07


linberson 
Level 63
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wait I have one more:

Hey Alex, let me treat you to some non-alcoholic beverages when you're back from warzone !
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-08 01:02:32


LND 
Level 61
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Just out of interest, does someone/s keep a log somewhere of exceptional decisions like this - you know, writing down details of what happened and why, so that they can be referred to in future?
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-08 01:04:36


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Just out of interest, does someone/s keep a log somewhere of exceptional decisions like this - you know, writing down details of what happened and why, so that they can be referred to in future?
Yes, here's the link: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/441651
Clan League 13: Official Thread: 2020-10-08 02:37:30


Viking1007
Level 61
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Edited 10/11/2020 13:59:27
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