@Dutch Desire: I don't that much know about the Amish community and I don't know much about vaccines. However, when it comes to such closed religious communities I know the following: On the outside it all looks very bright and if you dig deeper it still looks very bright. The whole thought process of people in such communities is centered around nobody seeing their shit, with them primarily being afraid of their brothers. If such a group has a doctrine that autism can't appear in their midst then there won't be any autism.

The man, the myth, the retard Dutch Desire rises from his grave.

Shut up, you hunched dutchman. You don't even live here. The only good the amish have ever done for us is selling cheap produce.

@Norman: No community is perfect, and that's the same for the Amish. But you're just posting baseless slander, saying they are primarily being afraid of their brothers and that the lack of autism is just because of doctrine.
That does not help much in this dialogue really.

There is no medical test, like a blood test, to diagnose autism, and the spectrum has no clear border. Doctors look at the child's developmental history and behavior to make a diagnosis.

It is easy to find sientific aritcals whish suggest that died and and age of motherhood can reduce the chance of autism, and that physical activities can reduce the symptoms, so its nothing strange that the lifestyle of the Amish reduces the chance of autism.

Also my post doesn't say that vaccine causes autism, instead it does suggest that the healthy lifestyle of the Amish reduces the chance of autism, and not the absence of vaccines.

Lightning, they studiously downvoted the 2 comments. Don't take this lightly. Also, based on the information I've gotten from an expert (who has been in contact with vaccine-companies), the research that they conduct to "reassure" people that vaccines are nonharmful, are conducted by people who hate veracity, which is due to them preferring wealth over truth. But to be honest, I think the main reason isn't even wealth. There's something else behind wealth that they're after, and which they want to achieve. To tell you more about this, then I suggest you send me a PM.

We've had organic food since the discovery of agriculture (turns out pesticides had to be invented too). Did not prevent smallpox, syphilis, the bubonic plague, etc. The Amish are a mixed bag health-wise: Less cancer (less tobacco), fewer STDs (fewer partners), less suicide, but also more genetic illnesses due to being an inbred population. Can't hold them as exemplars of better life and culture when they are scared of getting photographed and are frankly annoying to be around. They also do not shun medical care completely; they even maintain their own insurance program so they can afford it.

Let's not forget that the researcher who "found" the link between vaccines and autism turned out to have faked the data and lost his medical license over it. There are all sorts of fancy medical hypotheses you'll find on the internet about all sorts of things, but that's what peer review and replication studies are for. Hypotheses, even popular ones, are only worth as much as the verifiable evidence supporting them: In the 70s, thinking that a virus caused cancer was a popular view (enough for the US to waste hundreds of millions chasing it), but thanks to actually respecting evidence we now all know better.

Vaccines also require participation to fully work. The flu vaccine, for example, doesn't work 1/3 of the time on average: We need a solid majority to get vaccinated or that failure rate winds up allowing the flu to spread and kill more people (each year in the US, the flu kills 12-24k people). It's really reprehensible at this point to peddle discredited science from mom groups and nutjob sites, because the net impact of that is going to be more preventable deaths. Pre-vaccine, pre-medical care life sucked. There's a reason people had a half-dozen kids back then, and it wasn't because they were looking forward to a half-dozen surviving adult descendants. People died all the tome and entire societies got devastated periodically because we were stuck in a costly arms race, until someone people found out cowpox reduced the risk of smallpox (hence the vacc in vaccination), we started developing an understanding of how immunity works, and almost overnight saved more lives than ever before in history.

The mechanism is simple. The evidence that it works is all around you, in that your childhood friends dying was a notable occurrence and not just something you got used to. If you peddle discredited claims- frankly, lies- about vaccines, you are actively and baselessly working against one of the biggest leaps achieved by any members of humanity.

Edited 7/17/2020 16:44:38

Hold on there, @DutchDesire:

@Norman: No community is perfect, and that's the same for the Amish. But you're just posting baseless slander, saying they are primarily being afraid of their brothers and that the lack of autism is just because of doctrine.
That does not help much in this dialogue really.

I have neither acknowledged that the Amish don't vaccinate nor have I acknowledged that the Amish are autism free.

The only thing I have claimed is that the Amish are indeed very very very afraid and I don't need any first-hand knowledge to see that nor do I need to be a genius. This is always how such tight-knit pseudo Christian groups work. Forbidden to think they walk in the path of their forefathers and if they don't walk in line they are out. Such a group has absolutely nothing to do with some anarchic leftist back to the roots ideals.

Vaccines will be a key factor to end the pandemic

Edited 7/17/2020 21:51:35

How does dexterous proxy strategy fit into allah plan?

Edited 7/17/2020 20:37:39

Wow. I agree with Tungsten Rex for once. What on earth is happening?!

"I can only describe the autism theory with some choice words that are not allowed on Warzone. It is wrong, proven to be wrong, and as a professional statistician I can assure you that such research is untrustworthy and should never have been published." - Math Wolf

Afaik scientific research papers are rarely pulled, once published. This really helps spread bad information. -_-

Hi,
I'm an Amish man, and therefore can't accept vaccines for religious reasons.
HOWEVER,
I really want one. Problem is, Uncle Jededoseph 2 says needles in a man is the first way to Hell. . .

Hope that helps!

-Manford
~A son of God~

If you go by logic, if vaccine works and you take it. Then it means you're protected, why would they force it on me or anyone else who is against it. You take it if you believe it works and you're protected then, imma take my "risks" and skip on it cause it's disasterous for health with unknown consequences for long term health...

I don't get what you're trying to say...

If you have a right to not take a vaccine and risk being sick, I have a right to not be put at risk by other's stupidity.

I'm pretty sure the "individual" rights of a collective population outweigh the individual rights of a minority. Especially since this goes beyond a personal preference and actually affects other people.

Edited 7/19/2020 01:53:30

I fail to see how one's refusal to take a vaccine would effect another's health.

Person A takes vaccine for influenza. Person B doesn't. They meet and B has the flu. Person A now has the influenza virus in their system. Their body tries to fight it off, but this year's virus and vaccine don't completely match, so A is now sick with the flu. Now let's say person A has a weakened immune system. They are at massive of death now. We typically wait to take new vaccines to ensure they work and don't have excess side effects.

Nate, vaccines are not nonreligious. The past few Popes have taken vaccines and encouraged people to take vaccines. If you say the Pope is wrong, then your religion is not anywhere near Catholicism.

"I fail to see how one's refusal to take a vaccine would effect another's health." - Goodgame

So you're telling me that people who don't take vaccines - or get sick for that matter - never pass germs to other people? Lol ok dude. I won't let you bait me.

3 reasons for just the annual flu vaccine:

1. Some people can't get vaccinated for whatever reason (medical or even financial) or simply haven't gotten the shot yet; they rely on herd immunity
2. Some people are really at risk and can't survive the flu if their own vaccine doesn't work; they rely on herd immunity
3. Vaccines have failure rates; unless you want to leave 1/3 of people at risk for flu every year, we need the vast majority of the population to vaccinate so herd immunity circumvents this gap

But you're right, it's your choice: You can help society in one of 2 ways, by either getting vaccinated or leaving for the wilderness where you will not endanger others. Or you can continue to exist in society as an inconsiderate, illiterate, or insistently ignorant reminder that human potential does not always pan out as human intelligence. Entirely your choice.

Edit: Removed suggestion that anti-vaxxers should get euthanized as that may not be in line with Warzone ToS

Edited 7/19/2020 17:03:39

But you're right, it's your choice: You can help society in one of 2 ways, by getting either vaccinated or euthanized. Or you can continue to exist as an inconsiderate, illiterate, or insistently ignorant reminder that human potential does not always pan out as human intelligence. Entirely your choice.

I believe the above is a little too strong of a stance and not in line with Warzone's ToS.
Nevertheless, I fully understand and agree with the underlying reasoning.

Choosing not to get vaccinated is dangerous not only for yourself, but also to others as Knyte outlined in the easiest way possible.
Arguably, making this topic and stubbornly ignoring all scientific evidence is a lot worse than anything Knyte just said because his words have a lot less chance of severely impacting the health of other people than your words have.

It saddens me that people can genuinely believe this type of absolute nonsense. I sincerely hope you (Lightning) are only trolling, in which case there is absolutely nothing funny about it. The anti-vax movement has gone too far and is effectively a major health risk in several countries now.
I can't understand how people keep finding ever new ways of endangering their fellow citizens through sheer stupidity and misplaced pride into denying anything they can't understand.
In that way, I completely agree with Knyte and I would like to respectfully ask you to either rethink your choice or shut up about this topic instead of spreading your disgusting ideas to others.