yep Tbest is right this derailed fast

i dont understand drama at all so me trying to get involved was umm a risk (i dont know what is the right word to put there)

@goragln no worry. that's nothing you necessarily need to involved in. grab some popcorn and watch ;P

TBest explained everything perfectly imo :)

I disclosed how I got the information and the screenshots I made for complaining about the rule breaking to the panels or moderators have information on from who I got the info, when I got the info and the conversation
shows how I got the info. I not only mailed few of these players, but mailed lot of players for it, from same clan or those who know something about it.many players I mailed didn't know what was going on, few denied it and
few didn't reply. I gave screenshots of who shared the screenshots and made it all transparent; don't be blinded by bias and look into the screenshots, ask the previous panel members, players in those clans to know how I got
those information. Since you wrote I sneaked in alts to find the information, can I ask on what basis you're writing this?

And also one of the earlier points I missed, about the "holding onto information" part; because Nauzhror was strongly saying that 101st does the ladder scheming, I asked some players about it and strangely when I got data and
asked about it to you directly you denied it, diverted it to a stalling claim I made and when I discussed with the then CL panel on the same day, because I thought they were mods, and they said like it is not violating rules, I
left it.

http://imgbox.com/dwTQVcLW
http://imgbox.com/7DxLMkr1
http://imgbox.com/MGRCuWP2

I can't find the CL X server to show you when and why I brought it up, but it was like you were writing something like "don't write accusations on TJC bitch" and because I thought you were covering up their cheating like you do for your ladder scheming or 101st stalling and getting offended by the word bitch, I brought the screen shots to ask you, will you deny this too. It was like one month or two months between me asking you and posting it on CLX server. I can't give exact dates, but can give them later if I can find some more info on these.

p.s: @Norman, did you know that ladder scheming was happening in clan xD

Edited 4/11/2020 18:51:56

I don't think there are conspiracy XD the rule is clear since years. We can talk if this rule is good or not only.

I would like to thank "Mayo" for discovering all these cheaters! it is laughable because he is attacked on the methods used to discover cheating except that he does it for a noble cause! " HONESTY"
For me, not everyone who has been caught cheating should have access to positions of responsibility! like panel

Zev and mayo cl organizers 2021-20xx. The right and left hands of the devil. Best duo since cheaters deadman and beren

I don't know if I would be a good organizer, but the competition would be healthy and fair for everyone!
No straight pass or trick! And it would be in democratic form! 1 vote per clan!
There can't be DRAMA like that! Easy !!

Edited 4/11/2020 12:49:52

sister clan has 1 vote ofc

You'd probably be the only cl organizer who tries to be fair since JSA. Not even sure if the community is ready for that.

Edited 4/11/2020 12:55:33

Clan league more like cheaters league

I think this case is clearly covered by the rules, besides being straightforward using common sense. Also, I feel that the criticism and feelings on this issue are focused on Masters (the "favoured elitists, enemies of the people"), then on the fact itself.

This seems not so interesting, and I would like to widen the perspective a bit.

Actually I think that there are lots of arguments for allowing any (new) clan to jump directly into the division which reflects the level of its roster:
1) This is not a competition for money or involving other such interests, it's just for fun, and I do not see how unbalanced divisions may be fun.
2) Strong clans from the bottom seems totally non sense. Not only for good players, but as it deprives decent teams to promote.
3) It seems also desirable that div. A expresses the best available level of competition, as it makes CL more interesting.

How to do it may be a topic for the improvement thread, still it seems possible to use some objective parameters to rank a clan, e.g. the actual MDL Elo of its roster. Maybe this would in turn create more activity on the MDL, which also seems nice.

Mayo, you discovered nothing. You just collect screenshots after something comes out. Always late to the party, so to speak. Every single time you come with some big revelation about something that happened, it's already being discussed within the organisatory parties of CL. You publishing everything before anything useful can be discussed by the organization is merely hindering the process, not some big whistleblowing thing. The whistler guy you mention so often? You had nothing to do with it, nor did you provide any information. The TJC cheating? Not your discovery. In all those cases it's just been you publicizing stuff that's already being handled, trying to start a riot. That is exactly the reason nobody wanted to work with you when you applied for the Clan League Panel. You merely hinder the process, instead of handling it.

So who's gonna write a book about it? I wait

I feel this is just the beginning. We need a new team of analysts to reach a final conclusion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0iUhFzgw-rY

@zev His spying also included lynx/101st. He had even leaked a screenshot of me receiving help in a ladder game, TWO years after the incident happened, and he waited to report it until he was losing an argument.

Any respectable person would at least bring this up when they get it, or better yet talk to the actual people involved.

Not to mention he left out plenty of screenshots where krunx, Rento, me, etc. said to the players, you should not receive help on ongoing ladder or competitive games.

Of course what I did was wrong, but I was new and didn't know better.

Can we lock this thread already?

No Dont i wanna see What Happened Between All Of Them Makes it easier to understand whats going on

The 101st/Lynx stalling/cheating thing is too old at this point, I'm their biggest critic on that front with my forum history but I think they've been warmer with the community and have been good role models as a clan for this type of thing in recent times.

Let's get rid of that stigma first of all.

You should view 101st/Lynx from a higher perspective now than what the past suggests.

---

Outlaws/101st was straight forward, anyone objecting to that decision wouldn't have a good sense of judgment in terms of thinking of overall benefit to the league and context to the case. It might have been fair or not (that's up for interpretation), but it was the correct decision given the circumstances.

---

I like Masters, I think as a whole they've done more for the game than the French that is shouting them down. Deadman should be remembered for his contributions to the game and the league, not for cheating. I forget the case details but it wasn't like he rigged the league, it was just a breaking of rules and he was punished accordingly and that should be that.

Realistically, they had no impact on the final standings of the league so we can stop pretending it did. He made a mistake, he did something he shouldn't have done, that's as far as it goes. It wasn't Lance Armstrong's style of cheating as it seems like it's being painted.

---

Players should be grateful for people that make contributions, the idea of having players shove 2-year-old screenshots saying "you did this, you are a bad cheater" to a Cowboy, who has spent more time leading that CL then some fathers have spent with their sons, is just toxic culture.

---

I'd finally like to bring an interesting parallel, which I think creates the most divide on this issue. In racism stereotyping, you see a color and you make a series of assumptions.

I feel people see Master's tag, see them as cheaters and automatically associate cheating.

Don't view a clan for its tag, view them for their current values and their current members. To judge off a tag, is following a weird parallel with racism.

Am I trying to call this racism? For sake of controversy, yes.

---

The easiest solution is for Masters to simply play under the Apprentice tag, but that won't happen because of spite and now we're in a toxic Masters vs French battle.

The correct solution is for Masters to take Apps spot under the rule. Let the French change the rule if they're so upset about it. I think they could've argued about this rule under the Clan League 12 improvements thread.

All parties can be happy.

Welcome to my ted talk x
Yaxvi

Edited 4/11/2020 19:32:43

https://www.strawpoll.me/19751847

Vote on it bud