The players that cheated got punished.

If the clan had worked as a full cheat ring then sure, you'd have a point, but only a handful of players ended up cheating.

Closest clan that systemically cheated was TJC, because almost everyone cheated to some extent.

Also, most of Masters cheating occurred in CL8, a season which they didn't even win.

Well that escalated quickly. I had hoped to not comment on this thread again, but feel required to inject some sanity into the discussion.

Masters or Beren cheating in the past is irrelevant to the discussion of the spot claiming rule. The rule is clearly worded and can be discussed on its merits without considering the party exercising it or the party that created it.

Intention of the rule is that the players that comprise a clan are more truly "the clan" than the clan tag. That is when awarding a spot in a clan league it should go to the players that earned that spot rather than the clan tag. This rule has already been used in the favor of current A mainstays Outlaws and One!

From a balance of competition standpoint this is clearly correct. If Clan A's position was dependent on the players that form Clan B then it is much more likely that Clan B will accurately reflect the skill of that spot. For example Outlaws split off from 101st with many of CL participants. Since that split Outlaws has outperformed 101st in CL after CL.

So on face value the rule is a good one. Next comes unintended consequences and potential abuses. Some people consider the current situation an abuse of the rule so lets consider the scenario:

1) Clan A is very strong clan that because of a lack of willing/able players drops out of CL.

2) Two seasons later Clan A convinces Clan B to merge with Clan A so that they can again play in CL using Clan B's spot and don't have to start at the bottom. Lets call the new clan AB.

Now did Clan A abuse the rule? I don't think so for two reasons: 1) Clans mergers happen and when they do the clans will inevitably use the CL spot of the clan currently in better standing. 2) Functionally there is no difference if Clan AB plays under the name Clan A or the name Clan B.

If you want to argue that the rule is bad, do so on the merits of the rule, not the persons involved.

the problem here is that the Master tag has an advantage that other clan tags do not have (not all)
If Master can do this , then the divisions (p/r) don't mean anything anymore!
the goal of the game becomes to make alliances and merge with other clans, and jump 2,3, 4 divisions
and too bad for clans who have no relationships! they only have to struggle from below
Nah really it s not fair !!

Edited 4/10/2020 23:11:47

I think a CL-wide vote should be held, if at the very least to guide the ethics/audit panel in their decision, if it comes down to potentially changing rules. Because a forum thread is fine, but it's a shouting match that won't get anywhere. A vote would clearly show who thinks what and would, in my opinion, be quite useful. Of course the result wouldn't be taken as the decision, but it could guide the decision.

Man I haven't seen this much clan league drama since Season 5!

https://www.warzone.com/Forum/42788-clan-league-5?Offset=0

I like the idea of Turtles taking the Apprentice/MASTER CLAN spot in Group A. If we were given it I'm sure we could field a competitive roster; however, it seems that Turtles would have to start in Group D. I'm not so sure that Turtles can handle the might of the French Community. They seem pretty experienced over there?


OR maybe I could ask MASTER CLAN to take me back and then I could boot for them in A for old times sake.

the problem here is that the Master tag has an advantage that other clan tags do not have

as granted by Fizzer upon buying the clanpage

the problem here is that the Master tag has an advantage that other clan tags do not have (not all)
If Master can do this , then the divisions (p/r) don't mean anything anymore!
the goal of the game becomes to make alliances and merge with other clans, and jump 2,3, 4 divisions
and too bad for clans who have no relationships! they only have to struggle from below
Nah really it s not fair !!

1) In what way does the Master tag have an advantage? Because Master is a cool name and a history of elite play? Same could be said of just about any top clan.

2) Clan mergers are part of the game. I don't really see a good way to police this. Illuminati recently merged with 101st. Is that an unfair advantage?

Its like saying if 101st merged into Illuminati, that 101st should start from division d. Is that really fair or appropriate?

101st merged with French Community and Acme co. before as well, even taking the CL spot of the former. I think that's really really unfair towards other clans which didn't have a possibility of merging into as many as three clans!

101st merged with French Community and Acme co. before as well, even taking the CL spot of the former. I think that's really really unfair towards other clans which didn't have a possibility of merging into as many as three clans!

@misterglass
is illuminati got spot to div B ?
"In what way does the Master tag have an advantage?"
i explained above.

Edited 4/11/2020 00:56:29

@Bim!

If all the Masters joined Apprentice, would you have a problem with Apprentice playing in division B?

no, Apps earned this spot

Edited 4/11/2020 01:01:01

Zev [Warzone Member]
Level 62

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Well, you know the difference they are ? In what sense it is not fair ?
It's a story of awards and ethics!
We all play the CL to put our name on the charts! (or the name of our clan)
Master won 2 CL and if they merged with Apps and getting their spot as Master!
they will be able to have another title next season if Apps stays in div A or in 2 seasons if Apps goes to B instead 4 seasons like all new clan who started CL in div D ! And Master know that ! that s why they did that !
so it s not fair for other clan !

I just don't understand the thinking and we're going to have to agree to disagree. You fully admit you don't have a problem with the same group of players playing in B under the name Apprentice, so your issue is entirely with the Master clan tag. As I said earlier I find that argument petty, let the clan change their name if they want to.

From a precedence standpoint this has already happened at least twice, and people have generally agreed giving Outlaws and One! their spots was a good decision. From a competitive balance standpoint it would be better for Master to play in B than D.

Honestly think people just have a bone to pick with Master and wouldn't care if it was two clans in B-C that decided to do this.

no, it would be the same for every clans ! i just explained why Masters want to do it !
nothing against them
i contested with outlaws/101st when outlaws get the spot
and don t forget Lynx/101st where Lynx started at the bottom pls!

Edited 4/11/2020 01:33:37

I like how everyone caught our intentions before even we did. Deadman planned for the whole thing two years ago, we just waited for it till we get to play in B instead of A. Bim also realized we do it for inexistent cl trophies we don't give a damn about.

then prove it and play with Apps! it's simple however
or explain why you absolutely want to play with master tag when you can play with all your friends from Master in div A / B with Apps?
if tag and cl trophies are really not important for you !

Edited 4/11/2020 01:46:57