@Nemo: this is a bad idea, and you chose a bad example. Blitz isn't being left simply because of having unsuccesful season, it had long ongoing internal problems which culminated just lately. Your proposal would cause more harm than good, forcing people to stay in clan they aren't happy with. I'm not sure what does it actually solve, either. Also I believe there already is a similar rule, that prevents player from playig in clan X, then clan Y next season and clan X yet next one?

@SCG: Strongly agreed. I understand why Q2 would look like it did, but as it is now, stage 2 is like two Q2's squared, except completely irrelevant. This would give much better practice for the clans playing, putting against each other teams that are much closer in skill level.

Edited 6/12/2017 10:22:20

Yeah, I think people are going waaay to far with those "bench a player for a season" rules. One season takes half a year, you can't forbid someone to play for that long for reasons over which they don't have full control. The current rule, that if you played last season for clan X, now you're playing for Y, you can't play for X again next season is sufficient.

@edit Onoma was faster... and I forgot to say, I like SCG's suggestions very much.

Edited 6/12/2017 10:28:48

We'll give people one last day to suggest improvements for CL10. We'll start discussing this thread among ourselves tomorrow.

Problem: More player level breakdown of stats needed

Solution: Development of a Clan League Player Score

The statistic that most people care about is player ranking and how a player ranks relative to every other player.

A simple dynamic formula can achieve an objective score:

((Sum of winning percentages of opponents for games won in clan league) – (Sum of the inverse winning percentage of games lost))/(Total number of games played)

That should effectively rank every player with very few if any ties, since players playing in multiple slots allow for sufficient percentage variation.

bump

We have gone over all suggestions on this thread. Anything which was actionable has been considered and we've come up with the first draft of changes for CL10.

Anything marked (Needs work)* on the CLOT, will will be given high priority. These solutions are conditional to the respective features being implemented in time for CL10.

For more detailed comments on issues not addressed on this post, please see - https://goo.gl/4C3oss

We will discuss all of these changes on a live stream @ https://goo.gl/AaXyxF

---

• Problem : CL is too slow
  Solution : Start the games according to a fixed schedule. Games will be created without taking into account how many games the players already have. Everyone would know when their games will be allocated and clans are able to plan better.(Needs work)*
  
  Tentative schedule:
  

  Groups A/B
  1v1s : 1v1s are split up into two groups of 3 tournaments.
  1st group : 1st game on day 1
              2nd game on day 11
              3rd game on day 21
              4th game on day 31
              5th game on day 41
              6th game on day 51
              MID SEASON REGISTRATION on day 60 (Lasts 2 weeks)
  2nd group : 1st game on day 75
              2nd game on day 85
              3rd game on day 95
              4th game on day 105
              5th game on day 115
              6th game on day 125  
  
  3v3s and  : 1st game on day 1
  2v2s        2nd game on day 25
              3rd game on day 50
              MID SEASON REGISTRATION on day 60 (Lasts 2 weeks)
              4th game on day 75
              5th game on day 100
              6th game on day 125
  
  Group Q
  1v1s     :  1st game on day 1
              2nd game on day 11
              3rd game on day 21
              4th game on day 31
              5th game on day 41
              6th game on day 51
  
  3v3s and  : Game 1 and 2 on day 1
  2v2s        Game 3 and 4 on day 25
              Game 5 and 6 on day 50
  
  Group C/D1/D2 will follow a similar schedule(start date depends on when Q finishes)
  

  
  
  
• Problem : Alts and multi-clan members
  Solution :
  • Every player has to register an account to be used in the Clan League(clans can do it on players' behalf as well). This account can't be changed in subsequent seasons unless they ask the organizers specifically (We will only allow changes if it doesn't appear that they are doing this just to circumvent this rule).
    
  • A player has to be in the clan whenever a game is assigned. If you aren't in the clan it's a loss. Clan managers will need to substitute players who have left their clan(if games haven't been allocated) (Needs work)*
    
  • There will be two registration periods for CL10. The first window will be at the start of the season. The second window will be at the midway point of the season(2 months in). It will last for a period of 2 weeks and gives clans a chance to replace players who have left.
    
  • The substitution limit will be increased to 10 per clan. There are 18 slots in a season. Clans should be able to guarantee some sort of stability, or be penalized for it.
    
  • If a player(who is in P tournaments) transfers from clan X to Y in the mid-season window, they can only represent clan Y in (3-P) tournaments.
    
  • All alts used in CL must be declared publicly.
    
  
  
• Problem : Games being decided by non-joins
  Solution : We've decided to not make changes to the current system. If a player has gone missing and may not be able to join on time, a teammate can use their vacation to "save" them from a boot(similar to in-game). Any game which has a player on vacation is ignored.
  
  
• Problem : Vacations
  Solution : Every player has a 30 day limit on vacations. If a player takes more than 30 days, they are awarded a loss on any game where they're on vacation. (Needs work)*
  
  
• Problem : Notification issues
  Solution : There will be an announcement thread that has weekly updates on administrative items. If there is no activity on the thread on any given week, you should assume that we have nothing new to say.
  
  
• Problem : Limited Slots - B teams
  Solution : No clan may field more than one lineup.
  
  
• Problem : Template Voting - Don't use the STV system
  Solution : All voting mechanisms can be rigged if you know what to expect. The voting system will be hidden from clans until the votes are in. We will pick one of the systems randomly from a list(might use template panel for accountability) and resolve the votes based on that.
  
  
• Problem : Make D1 and D2 less boring
  Solution : Clans that finish 3rd/4th will be put in D1 and 5th/6th in D2.
  

p.s - Please up-vote the post so it is not missed by others.

Edited 7/14/2017 00:25:21

All in all, that sounds great. Especially I am enthusiastic about the fixed schedule.

I am not competly sure about:

Problem : Template Voting - Don't use the STV system
Solution : All voting mechanisms can be rigged if you know what to expect. The voting system will be hidden from clans until the votes are in. We will pick one of the systems randomly from a list(might use template panel for accountability) and resolve the votes based on that.

Through my eyes the votes depend on the voting system, but I would need to see, how different the voting systems are.

Edited 7/10/2017 09:39:38

Oh wow, nice work with this suggestions spreadsheet. Very clear and informative.

That said, could you please elaborate on the template voting change? Why does it need to be changed? It was not listed as a problem in the opening post. I went through the thread again and only one person complained about the system.

All voting mechanisms can be rigged if you know what to expect.

Could you explain how exactly can you rig it? One clan can't just push the template they like, nor can they sabotage a template they don't like, STV doesn't allow that. Isn't that the point?

If you don't like STV, I'm sure people would come up with other ideas, if only this was listed as a problem earlier. I can already suggest the system used in Captains League. Each clan awards 1 point to six 1v1 templates of their choice (3 2v2 templates, 2 3v3 templates). Then you sum up the points and you get the results. How can you possibly rig that? You can't give more than 1 point nor less than 0, so you can't push your favourite template nor block the disliked one.

+1 To voting like Captain's league (described in Rento's post)

except it needs to be done anonymously because some Captains were biased in their votes if they waited to vote last...

I'm quite disappointed that the qualifiers remain two-stage and have not been replaced by a single big qualifier pool with a fixed schedule. :-(

Other than that, looks fine.

Agreed with MT, voting anonymously is better so that people can't influence each other and last one to vote actually have the impression that his vote is worth something.

I think I dont understand:

"Every player has to register an account to be used in the Clan League(clans can do it on players' behalf as well). This account can't be changed in subsequent seasons unless they ask the organizers specifically (We will only allow changes if it doesn't appear that they are doing this just to circumvent this rule)."

Circumvent which rule?

"If a player(who is in P tournaments) transfers from clan X to Y in the mid-season window, they can only represent clan Y in (3-P) tournaments."

What "P" and "3-P"? Is it possible that the same player after mid-season transfer can play for other clan in the same CL season and even the same CL division? Does the player continue his previous games for old clan while starting new for new clan?

"Every player has to register an account to be used in the Clan League(clans can do it on players' behalf as well). This account can't be changed in subsequent seasons unless they ask the organizers specifically (We will only allow changes if it doesn't appear that they are doing this just to circumvent this rule)."

- This wont stop people jumping around clans (i.e. in the Blitz case, relegating and staying in
the division with another clan). Anyone can leave a clan at any point to go play for another clan for Clan league though I guess forcing them to stay in that clan will stop people just chucking in alts into lower divisions.

- I do hope however that this wont be deliberately used to stop players who have moved on from lower ranked clans from competing with an alt left in that clan as their registered account, without later penalising them by not allowing them to switch their registered account to their main account if they no longer want to represent their old clan. What would the stance be on that ??

^This would be especially bad for people that have outgrown their clan but are not yet at the standard needed to compete in their new clan. This rule could be used badly to stop such people competing in clan league at all.

Edited 7/13/2017 13:31:04

Quite an interesting read in the google document, seems all reasonable.

As for the rule "Every player has to register [...]" the problem I see is that some players are in multiple clans and kinda get "automatically" added to the lineup. This happened me this season with an M'Hunters player whom I used to fill our lineup to the maximum amount and after looking at the spreadsheet I found that he was in 3 different clan lineups with some of his alts. As far as I know he didn't play a single game for any clan though, just like me the other clan managers just added him to the lineup.

@Norman, that shouldn't have been allowed. Could you PM me and Master of the Dead more details about this?

^It kinda don't matter whether it is allowed or not. When adding players from a clan you fill up the rosters, right? So how can you prevent it (hint: you can't)

Quite a lot of players have arguably no clear main account, so neither clan is adding alts or anything. As long as a player don't play for multiple clans then there is no issue?

PS: Pretty sure this has been the case in both this and past CL's (a player being on multiple roters, while not playing for more than one clan). It is just more visible now, since the roster is bigger, so a lot of players gets added before a player says yes or no to playing.

If it's not allowed, then who is breaking the rule?

The clan(s) who didn't know about the other clans?
The player who didn't know they where on multiple rosters?

It's unfortunate, but I don't see a way of preventing it in the roster stage. So you have to stop it at the lineup, no? The alt/main questions is really hard to control as most players won't know everybody's alts.


EDIT: Kinda realted, but

A player has to be in the clan whenever a game is assigned. If you aren't in the clan it's a loss. Clan managers will need to substitute players who have left their clan(if games haven't been allocated) (Needs work)*

might be amended to 'An Account' ? or maybe... The player's account must be in the clan... I think the intention in that rule is clear. Just that the language could be more precise to avoid an potential loophole discussion of placing an alt in the clan, while leaving with the CL account.

Edited 7/13/2017 18:54:19

Nice sheet. Read through it all.

About the scoring updates, did you guys talk about a solution there? Is the google sheet method slow? The data could easily be moved to a PostgreSQL database, but then you would need a mechanism for rendering that data to the WL community. Like an SSRS website or something.

We'll address all questions/concerns on a live stream(hopefully this weekend, time to be announced soon).

About the scoring updates, did you guys talk about a solution there? Is the google sheet method slow? The data could easily be moved to a PostgreSQL database, but then you would need a mechanism for rendering that data to the WL community. Like an SSRS website or something.

Yeah. We're making progress to improve that situation. I'm not sure if the changes will be delivered on time for CL10 though, since we're racing against the clock :(

OK, hit me up if there is something I could help with.

We're doing a live stream this Saturday to go over the changes @ https://goo.gl/AaXyxF.

We will answer all questions posted on this thread since our announcement regarding the changes for CL10. If you cannot make it to the live stream, be sure to post your questions on this thread.