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Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-23 23:14:49


l4v.r0v 
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TL;DR: Being nice has worked in the past; to wit, it's the only thing that's ever worked. Fizzer is not a fundamentally bad or greedy person. We do not understand him well and are probably wrong about many judgements. I think we have something good going right now with the petition effort and I'd really like to try that first.
As someone with little respect for the guy, I feel those are unfair & unproductive judgements. If he were simply lucre-motivated, he would not have made this game.

He may have done some things you & I find reprehensible, but people are complex and the vast majority of bad things are done by mostly-decent people for what they believe are good reasons. There are clearly things he cares about and ways in which he's demonstrated kindness, patience, & conscientiousness. We're all mixed bags, right? Just think about how others would judge you if they only fixated on your worst or your best parts, with limited knowledge of what really makes you tick.

Plus if your theory of Fizzer is true, then we have already largely lost. Let's play the winnable game first.

Stop being delusional, acting nice will not make Fizzer change
I can attest this isn't always true. The Create Game API accepts a "settings" parameter because I simply asked nicely over email- he implemented that feature the same day I asked! He also sent me a lenghty, heartfelt apology once in 2017 or so after (apparently) saying bad things about me on his Twitch stream (which I didn't view and can't speak to). My opinion of the man was for the longest time one that held him in the highest esteem. He's done lots of very nice things!

Anyhow, I'm hoping you can cut him some slack. What you said earlier about "health problems" rubbed me the wrong way; if he is struggling with health, I hope he absolutely prioritizes that over any perceived obligations to us. I hope we presumptively extend sympathy in case he is. (I suspect some will perceive this as hypocritical, given my persistent & harsh criticism of him, but like I said earlier, we're mixed bags and outside observers often jump to wildly incorrect assumptions about motivations, then confirmation-bias ourselves into perpetuating those and becoming increasingly wrong.)

you need to convince it that it's in his best monetary interest
I do not think $ is his core motivation. I suspect he is instead motivated by some vision of what he wants to do with his time & life. I doubt we have figured this out.

Anyhow, we don't really need to. There are members of the community who have become his personal friends and can have extended conversations with him. If we can draft a clear, concise, copacetic petition and recruit someone he trusts/respects/listens to, to present it and advocate for it on our behalf, then I think we have strong odds of success. It's about cutting through the noise and getting someone who has a better working relationship with him to help us out. I have some candidates in mind, but unfortunately I've burned my own bridges with them so it might take a little bit of time to get that piece in place.
He is the same person who filed a frivolous lawsuit against Activision and then lied to community that Activision were the ones suing him
In case you arrived to this half-wrong conclusion based on my updates, let me correct the record. Activision did sue Fizzer- but for a declaration of non-infringement. Warlight, on the other hand, persistently claimed Activision was infringing on their "warzone" mark and demanded $ over it- both by sending a cease & desist and in their now-dismissed countersuit. Please also do not just take my word for things; my own relationship with Fizzer has completely deteriorated after some adverse interactions in 2020 and 2021, so my description of his actions are likely colored by strong prior beliefs I have formed about his personality & character. Also he worked at Microsoft and as someone who has interviewed with them, I also have a strong prior against anyone who has ever worked there; one of my core beliefs is that Microsoft's hiring bar is lower than a pub at the center of the Earth. I'm biased!

So don't just take my word for anything. Many of the documents are public and you can read them yourself: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fvqiprIa_0wIQCDUBdEeyiXXxBUKeV1e/view?usp=sharing

In short, I believe he willingly and deliberately misled the community about the facts and stakes in order to push a sympathetic narrative and raise funds by wildly mischaracterizing the lawsuit as a fight over whether this game can continue calling itself "warzone." But it's tricky to communicate this concisely without confusing people about the case.

The rough timeline is:
(1) Activision files for trademark registrations in the US & EU to "CALL OF DUTY WARZONE" and "WARZONE"
(2) Warzone counter-files in the US for "WARZONE" and files opposition to Activision's US trademark registrations, claiming Activision is instead infringing on Warzone's common law trademark to the word "warzone"
(3) Warzone sends Activision a cease-and-desist letter on November 20, 2020, alleging trademark infringement and demanding Activision cease using the word "warzone," pay Warzone for using it (initial ask: 0.25% of CoDWZ profits), or get forced to pay "massive damages" by the courts
(4) After failing to come to an agreement, Activision sues Warzone in April 2021 for a declaration of non-infringement and to decide the trademark dispute in their favor.
(5) Warzone countersues Activision for trademark infringement, demanding the court either stop Activision from using the word "warzone" and/or make Activision pay Warzone money for using it.
(6) The court rules, without a trial, that Activision is not infringing on Warzone's alleged mark to the word "warzone," that Warzone's infringement claims have no legal merit. The court does not rule on the competing trademark registrations.
(7) Warzone appeals the decision.

My objections (in terms of dishonesty and manipulation) were to the following misrepresentations:
(1) When fundraising, Fizzer repeatedly claimed that Activision was simply lying about the cease and desist letter. He later claimed (to the courts and to Farah) that a letter was sent but it was not a cease and desist. Though not public, this letter was submitted to the courts, which simply described the letter as a cease and desist.
(2) When fundraising, Fizzer claimed Activision is suing Fizzer for using the word "warzone" in his game's name. This is exactly backwards: the only party in this case to claim infringement or demand $ for using the word "warzone" was Fizzer. Activision's legal theory, upheld by the courts, precludes an infringement claim against Warzone, as do decades of legal precedent.
(3) When fundraising, Fizzer manufactured a scenario where this game gets its apps taken down or gets forced to change its name. As a good faith prior user, Warzone is protected even if Activision succeeds in its trademark registrations. Activision's own First Amendment-based legal theory, upheld by the district judge, also precludes going after Warzone over infringement. Fizzer cites the time Hasbro got his apps taken down temporarily over "Play Risk Online Free," but this was a case of legitimate trademark infringement through consumer confusion- trademark infringement on which this game built its playerbase. At this moment, Activision already holds the trademark to "warzone" in the EU- yet they have not taken the apps down, because doing so would be legally baseless & they probably do not care in general.

I strongly suspect that most donors donated based on the above misrepresentations. Insofar as that is true, I hope he can understand the degree to which he took advantage of the community's goodwill and make amends. However, I suspect this will never happen because his strategy for fundraising has been rather successful and morally he probably feels he is in the right to do what he's doing after getting surprised by a big company using the word he'd hoped to build his own gaming brand on (in both foresight and hindsight, quite foolishly and after repeated prophetic warnings by the community).

Edited 9/23/2022 23:49:34
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-23 23:33:12


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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I also hope we don't lose perspective of the bigger picture: the stakes are quite small (the enjoyability of a feature on a free online game). CW isn't something that's, like, harming anyone- we can always just Log Off and do something else on Warlight or even play another game. Escalating grievances, about unaddressed requests on a casual group competitive event on a niche Risk-like indie game we otherwise all (probably) quite enjoy, into a full-blown campaign to frustrate a man, who on balance has added quite a bit of value to the quality of our leisure time, seems to me quite unwarranted as a first option.

To reiterate, we should focus on balancing effort, risk, and likelihood of effectiveness. In that calculus, I'd say the Be Nice approach clearly should be Plan A.

If we pick a more aggressive course of action, we should spend like 2 days Logged Off before committing to it so we make sure we have made the decision with some perspective instead of Extremely Online tunnel vision. To be honest, the only justification I can think of for pursuing a "strike" or "boycott" or the extremely aggressive spam-driven strategy is its sheer entertainment value. It's a foregone conclusion that it's not going to really work any better than trying to get your boss to give you a raise by making his life miserable. Even if it's less effort to just give you a raise, he's going to fire you.

Edited 9/23/2022 23:48:46
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-23 23:47:58


Harmony 
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Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to respond to this thread https://www.warzone.com/Forum/647412-website-fixed-realtime-ladder-stat-pages but hasn't spoken in this thread even once? How hard can it possibly be to dedicate one hour to skim through this thread? Fizzer could ask some questions in this thread and we'd respond to it.

Has Fizzer ever apologized over misleading community over his Activision countersuit?

Fizzer has been developing this game for 14 or so years. Things change with time. Maybe Fizzer's passion for Warzone has burned out and he simply stopped caring in recent years? We should judge him over who he is now and right now he's not acting in best possible light. I saw what Flexus said, Fizzer is mocking us. How am I supposed to respect Fizzer if he's making fun of community's attempts to make a positive change?

I play some Warzone Idle and I saw prices in it, they're not good. For 70$, which is a price of new AAA game, you cannot do that much in Idle, perhaps complete a few high end levels from start to finish, but that's it. Seeing Fizzer price his game like that reminds me of companies like EA or Blizzard and I am personally boycotting them already.

What are we supposed to do? Fizzer was contacted over this numerous times and every single one of them he absolutely refused to do anything, he didn't even bother to make a thread for suggestions for something. I checked that he added some things after very first few seasons, but that was long ago and at the moment he appears to have abandoned Clan Wars. If talking appears to bring 0 interest from Fizzer, then the next logical step are actions.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-23 23:51:14


Harmony 
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I know this is a game and all, but I'm manager in Harmony and we're very friendly to each other here. Clan Wars effect us directly and seeing Clan Wars being neglected saddens me. This is not how Fizzer should threat his fans.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-24 00:08:12


l4v.r0v 
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hasn't spoken in this thread even once? How hard can it possibly be to dedicate one hour to skim through this thread? Fizzer could ask some questions in this thread and we'd respond to it.
There's novel-length posts (my bad) here to skim and he's probably got a bunch of other things to do, so he has to triage his time. We don't see all the player mails or bug reports or infrastructure/platform/code improvements he spends his time on. Also, historically, engaging in conversations like this one has come with risks for him: it's a lose-lose-lose. He could either commit to something he's not convinced about, explain his objections (for which he's already been crucified for in this thread, and which takes time and could set off a debate he probably doesn't have the time to respond to), or just respond curtly without justification that it's not a priority (which would also get him derided).

I'd wager his approach is to read a lot but only write when he's decided to do something, because in other cases he's taking a risk. It's quite possible he's given up on transparency & communication not because he doesn't care but because the community has conditioned him to avoid those.

Has Fizzer ever apologized over misleading community over his Activision countersuit?
No, and I don't think he even believes he has misled the community. He did delete my non-rule-breaking "Activision Fan Club" clan (but kept the coins, which I'd bought with dollars, in effect stealing $9.99 from me...) either over the name or description [which was essentially an abbreviated version of my last post]. So I'd wager he also does not appreciate it when I talk about the issues with how he's fundraised but generally holds off on deleting the posts for some unknown reasons (low likelihood of impact? high likelihood of backlash from me? it wouldn't look good? who knows). Maybe it says something good about him that he's willing to generally not delete some fairly strong accusations against him that he probably thinks are absolute BS by a troll with a persecution complex acting in bad faith (that's just my assumption of how he's come to view me, based on the rant Anonymous Moderator sent me in our DM thread). At least shows thick skin, among other positive traits.

What are we supposed to do?
Try to do the petition thing really well. If it doesn't work, consider escalating our efforts (per your suggestions) and weigh that against the benefit (do we already enjoy this game? how much of a difference would CW improvements make in our QoL?). If we feel that this game is harming or abusing its users, then we should also consider whether that outweighs or taints the value we get from the game and whether we should continue playing.

For me, I really enjoy this game with or without CW improvements. If I got permabanned, I wouldn't even hesitate to evade the ban so I could keep playing, no matter how many times or how sophisticated/retaliatory I had to get to be able to keep playing the game. InDEAD, SEAD is all i NEAD. [message for Anon Mod if he ever reads this:] This isn't to say that I condone or encourage ban-evasion. Just... Warlight's a really high-value game to me with or without CW. [Don't take this too literally- I think I've signalled a MAD posture here and would follow through if this account gets banned again for a BS reason, so actually evading the ban won't be an option. MAD and its ability to break security dilemmas and force cooperation or at least tolerance are truly OP.]

I suspect that's roughly true for most of the vocal critics. We'll keep playing the game- and probably CW too- whether or not he improves it based on our suggestions. This presents a challenge: why prioritize low-impact improvements? This is where I think the petition approach shines: we could cut through the confusion and provide a compelling but grounded case for why improving CW is a high-impact change rather than just catering to players who'd enjoy CW either way.

If we find ourselves seriously entertaining extreme actions, it's also worth noting that it may take less effort to simply create another game like this [clarification: without any IP infringement; I am not suggesting we steal the copyrighted code] and move there. It's a total Hail-Mary, almost certainly a bad idea, and would take lots of effort, but so are the extreme suggestions for a strike- if you think creating our own Warlight and moving there is a dumb idea (as I do), then consider that a well-executed strike would take even more work and have lower odds of success. I suspect the strike would mostly be a poorly planned frustration outlet more than anything else, because to do a strike well would require tough decisions (harsh actions to pursue good ends often entail the use of means inconsistent with those ends, like how during the American Revolution the Patriots ran a sort-of police state to get the population to support the war & handle Loyalists; whatever we do, we will have to do things we don't really want to) and time investments so significant that it could be much easier to just create our own CW2 at that point.

There's also the zero-effort approach of making peace with what we will (probably) get and finding another outlet within the game to enjoy ourselves. Y'know, it's like a TV station cancelling your favorite show. Probably feel a little bit wounded and unheard and frustrated- and it's worth trying to get them to change their minds (if you really care for the show) but after a certain point you just gotta accept Fox will never bring Firefly back.

Edited 9/24/2022 01:17:58
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 04:52:38


alexclusive 
Level 65
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Reminder to join the server l4v has created above
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 15:57:03


krinid 
Level 63
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LOL Cicero, he didn't even respond to your notes. But tbh we don't want him looking at this yet. Too soon. We need to organize & unify first.

TLDR on l4v's essay:
- Ignoring all the stuff on the Activision case, not relevant here.
- Can't think of an example where being aggressive/mean/disrespectful to get changes implemented has ever worked with Fizz.
- There have been several instances where "being nice" has worked. Note that "being nice" should always be the first attempt. "Nice" just means cordial, respectful, civil - and unless that fails, why try anything else? Always default to nice.
- Fizz has shown himself to be a thoughtful person and to "do the right thing" by the community IFF we convince him that it's a good idea. If
- A strike/boycott was never meant to "hurt" Fizzer or even annoy him, but rather just merely get his attention to show that this isn't a small group of people, but rather the greater community that seriously wants change. It's easy to dismiss the opinion(s) of 1 or 2 or 10 people. What developer would ever implement a change that they themselves don't agree with based on recommendation from a small segment of the player base? But a boycott would clearly indicate that 100+ people are united on wanting improvement.
- This is essentially Uservoice in a different flavour. Maybe writing it on Uservoice with 300+ votes would work? But maybe it wouldn't. But either way, the key is that it's not just 1 person's idea, it's the united player base asking for change.
- The first step is agreeing on changes that a large % of the player base would like. No point in getting attention to listen to a story that isn't coherent and unified. It'd just be dismissed like the opinions to date.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 16:04:44


Nice Guy 
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Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to respond to this thread https://www.warzone.com/Forum/647412-website-fixed-realtime-ladder-stat-pages but hasn't spoken in this thread even once?


Why would he read a thread called "Myth Busters are recruiting!"?
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 19:06:47


dry-clean-only 
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Can someone give me a TLDR summary of Krinid's last post please :D

Edited 9/25/2022 19:07:04
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 19:16:21


Harmony 
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Why would he read a thread called "Myth Busters are recruiting!"?


He was already contacted by some players and they asked him to check this thread. He knows that this thread exists and he knows that the community is unhappy. If he wanted to respond, he could have done so long ago, but he hasn't.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 19:47:22


l4v.r0v 
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Can someone give me a TLDR summary of Krinid's last post please :D
TL;DR: join https://discord.gg/fbxAPDPzcH and help us come up with consensus community requests
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-25 23:47:52


krinid 
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LMAO Dry-Clean. As l4v said ... join the Discord & help us get ~5 good CW change ideas together.

Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to respond to this thread https://www.warzone.com/Forum/647412-website-fixed-realtime-ladder-stat-pages but hasn't spoken in this thread even once?
As καλλιστηι , why would he read this thread? And we don't want him to read it now, it's just random thoughts & scheming, no cohesive pitch yet. Now is not the time.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 11:08:56


V@n 
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Why has this thread gotten so off-topic?

Unless... Fizzer wants to join MB?
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 14:52:12


mobtrio 
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LOL, for some people it is okay to be a 'litlle' off topic, for community benefit.

Anyway, back to (off)topic, is it wrong for me to summarize that all of the problems of current CW make it is not suitable/interisting/something-similar to competitive clans/community?
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 15:04:21


Doctor K 
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Not to pick on @eternity, specifically but, the post above beginning with Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to..
This post heaps a lot of criticism on Fizzer. If I were Fizzer I would ignore this thread as well. It's a lot of criticism. Who needs that?
Fizzer put together a CW system that is not perfect, and never will be.

Finally, some of the people doing the most complaining about CW are the ones that win it "a lor"

Edited 15 oct

Edited 10/16/2022 05:53:35
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 15:08:56


Doctor K 
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If you are here to be recruited by MB -- go read the comments here -- https://www.warzone.com/Forum/623626-busting-myth-myth-busters?Offset=20

If you want to be in a pressure cooker give it a try.

Edited 10/15/2022 20:54:21
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 15:22:56


Tac(ky)tical 
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haterz r my motivatorz
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 15:23:57


stefano36000 
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To be fair, you do say you'd like more stats about clan wars available in-game in the thread you're linking to. And the game might be free but it's still monetized (and so it should, I'm not complaining).
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 17:16:12


l4v.r0v 
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Back on topic: MB is a great clan and everyone I know in it seems to really enjoy their experience. If you want to get top notch CW rewards, play with the best, probably level up your game, MB is the obvious choice. If CW is your hard constraint, MB should be your top choice.

Their skill cutoff isn't really so high. Anyone who understands the content covered by your run-of-the-mill strategy guide should be able to meet it.

Clearest value prop of any clan right now.

Edited 9/28/2022 17:23:49
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 2022-09-28 19:08:21


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
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