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Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/23/2022 23:47:58


Harmony 
Level 58
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Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to respond to this thread https://www.warzone.com/Forum/647412-website-fixed-realtime-ladder-stat-pages but hasn't spoken in this thread even once? How hard can it possibly be to dedicate one hour to skim through this thread? Fizzer could ask some questions in this thread and we'd respond to it.

Has Fizzer ever apologized over misleading community over his Activision countersuit?

Fizzer has been developing this game for 14 or so years. Things change with time. Maybe Fizzer's passion for Warzone has burned out and he simply stopped caring in recent years? We should judge him over who he is now and right now he's not acting in best possible light. I saw what Flexus said, Fizzer is mocking us. How am I supposed to respect Fizzer if he's making fun of community's attempts to make a positive change?

I play some Warzone Idle and I saw prices in it, they're not good. For 70$, which is a price of new AAA game, you cannot do that much in Idle, perhaps complete a few high end levels from start to finish, but that's it. Seeing Fizzer price his game like that reminds me of companies like EA or Blizzard and I am personally boycotting them already.

What are we supposed to do? Fizzer was contacted over this numerous times and every single one of them he absolutely refused to do anything, he didn't even bother to make a thread for suggestions for something. I checked that he added some things after very first few seasons, but that was long ago and at the moment he appears to have abandoned Clan Wars. If talking appears to bring 0 interest from Fizzer, then the next logical step are actions.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/23/2022 23:51:14


Harmony 
Level 58
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I know this is a game and all, but I'm manager in Harmony and we're very friendly to each other here. Clan Wars effect us directly and seeing Clan Wars being neglected saddens me. This is not how Fizzer should threat his fans.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/24/2022 00:08:12


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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hasn't spoken in this thread even once? How hard can it possibly be to dedicate one hour to skim through this thread? Fizzer could ask some questions in this thread and we'd respond to it.
There's novel-length posts (my bad) here to skim and he's probably got a bunch of other things to do, so he has to triage his time. We don't see all the player mails or bug reports or infrastructure/platform/code improvements he spends his time on. Also, historically, engaging in conversations like this one has come with risks for him: it's a lose-lose-lose. He could either commit to something he's not convinced about, explain his objections (for which he's already been crucified for in this thread, and which takes time and could set off a debate he probably doesn't have the time to respond to), or just respond curtly without justification that it's not a priority (which would also get him derided).

I'd wager his approach is to read a lot but only write when he's decided to do something, because in other cases he's taking a risk. It's quite possible he's given up on transparency & communication not because he doesn't care but because the community has conditioned him to avoid those.

Has Fizzer ever apologized over misleading community over his Activision countersuit?
No, and I don't think he even believes he has misled the community. He did delete my non-rule-breaking "Activision Fan Club" clan (but kept the coins, which I'd bought with dollars, in effect stealing $9.99 from me...) either over the name or description [which was essentially an abbreviated version of my last post]. So I'd wager he also does not appreciate it when I talk about the issues with how he's fundraised but generally holds off on deleting the posts for some unknown reasons (low likelihood of impact? high likelihood of backlash from me? it wouldn't look good? who knows). Maybe it says something good about him that he's willing to generally not delete some fairly strong accusations against him that he probably thinks are absolute BS by a troll with a persecution complex acting in bad faith (that's just my assumption of how he's come to view me, based on the rant Anonymous Moderator sent me in our DM thread). At least shows thick skin, among other positive traits.

What are we supposed to do?
Try to do the petition thing really well. If it doesn't work, consider escalating our efforts (per your suggestions) and weigh that against the benefit (do we already enjoy this game? how much of a difference would CW improvements make in our QoL?). If we feel that this game is harming or abusing its users, then we should also consider whether that outweighs or taints the value we get from the game and whether we should continue playing.

For me, I really enjoy this game with or without CW improvements. If I got permabanned, I wouldn't even hesitate to evade the ban so I could keep playing, no matter how many times or how sophisticated/retaliatory I had to get to be able to keep playing the game. InDEAD, SEAD is all i NEAD. [message for Anon Mod if he ever reads this:] This isn't to say that I condone or encourage ban-evasion. Just... Warlight's a really high-value game to me with or without CW. [Don't take this too literally- I think I've signalled a MAD posture here and would follow through if this account gets banned again for a BS reason, so actually evading the ban won't be an option. MAD and its ability to break security dilemmas and force cooperation or at least tolerance are truly OP.]

I suspect that's roughly true for most of the vocal critics. We'll keep playing the game- and probably CW too- whether or not he improves it based on our suggestions. This presents a challenge: why prioritize low-impact improvements? This is where I think the petition approach shines: we could cut through the confusion and provide a compelling but grounded case for why improving CW is a high-impact change rather than just catering to players who'd enjoy CW either way.

If we find ourselves seriously entertaining extreme actions, it's also worth noting that it may take less effort to simply create another game like this [clarification: without any IP infringement; I am not suggesting we steal the copyrighted code] and move there. It's a total Hail-Mary, almost certainly a bad idea, and would take lots of effort, but so are the extreme suggestions for a strike- if you think creating our own Warlight and moving there is a dumb idea (as I do), then consider that a well-executed strike would take even more work and have lower odds of success. I suspect the strike would mostly be a poorly planned frustration outlet more than anything else, because to do a strike well would require tough decisions (harsh actions to pursue good ends often entail the use of means inconsistent with those ends, like how during the American Revolution the Patriots ran a sort-of police state to get the population to support the war & handle Loyalists; whatever we do, we will have to do things we don't really want to) and time investments so significant that it could be much easier to just create our own CW2 at that point.

There's also the zero-effort approach of making peace with what we will (probably) get and finding another outlet within the game to enjoy ourselves. Y'know, it's like a TV station cancelling your favorite show. Probably feel a little bit wounded and unheard and frustrated- and it's worth trying to get them to change their minds (if you really care for the show) but after a certain point you just gotta accept Fox will never bring Firefly back.

Edited 9/24/2022 01:17:58
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 04:52:38


alexclusive 
Level 65
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Reminder to join the server l4v has created above
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 15:57:03


krinid 
Level 62
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LOL Cicero, he didn't even respond to your notes. But tbh we don't want him looking at this yet. Too soon. We need to organize & unify first.

TLDR on l4v's essay:
- Ignoring all the stuff on the Activision case, not relevant here.
- Can't think of an example where being aggressive/mean/disrespectful to get changes implemented has ever worked with Fizz.
- There have been several instances where "being nice" has worked. Note that "being nice" should always be the first attempt. "Nice" just means cordial, respectful, civil - and unless that fails, why try anything else? Always default to nice.
- Fizz has shown himself to be a thoughtful person and to "do the right thing" by the community IFF we convince him that it's a good idea. If
- A strike/boycott was never meant to "hurt" Fizzer or even annoy him, but rather just merely get his attention to show that this isn't a small group of people, but rather the greater community that seriously wants change. It's easy to dismiss the opinion(s) of 1 or 2 or 10 people. What developer would ever implement a change that they themselves don't agree with based on recommendation from a small segment of the player base? But a boycott would clearly indicate that 100+ people are united on wanting improvement.
- This is essentially Uservoice in a different flavour. Maybe writing it on Uservoice with 300+ votes would work? But maybe it wouldn't. But either way, the key is that it's not just 1 person's idea, it's the united player base asking for change.
- The first step is agreeing on changes that a large % of the player base would like. No point in getting attention to listen to a story that isn't coherent and unified. It'd just be dismissed like the opinions to date.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 16:04:44


καλλιστηι 
Level 62
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Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to respond to this thread https://www.warzone.com/Forum/647412-website-fixed-realtime-ladder-stat-pages but hasn't spoken in this thread even once?


Why would he read a thread called "Myth Busters are recruiting!"?
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 19:06:47


dry-clean-only 
Level 63
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Can someone give me a TLDR summary of Krinid's last post please :D

Edited 9/25/2022 19:07:04
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 19:16:21


Harmony 
Level 58
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Why would he read a thread called "Myth Busters are recruiting!"?


He was already contacted by some players and they asked him to check this thread. He knows that this thread exists and he knows that the community is unhappy. If he wanted to respond, he could have done so long ago, but he hasn't.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 19:47:22


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Can someone give me a TLDR summary of Krinid's last post please :D
TL;DR: join https://discord.gg/fbxAPDPzcH and help us come up with consensus community requests
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/25/2022 23:47:52


krinid 
Level 62
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LMAO Dry-Clean. As l4v said ... join the Discord & help us get ~5 good CW change ideas together.

Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to respond to this thread https://www.warzone.com/Forum/647412-website-fixed-realtime-ladder-stat-pages but hasn't spoken in this thread even once?
As καλλιστηι , why would he read this thread? And we don't want him to read it now, it's just random thoughts & scheming, no cohesive pitch yet. Now is not the time.
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 11:08:56


V@n 
Level 63
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Why has this thread gotten so off-topic?

Unless... Fizzer wants to join MB?
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 14:52:12


mobtrio 
Level 62
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LOL, for some people it is okay to be a 'litlle' off topic, for community benefit.

Anyway, back to (off)topic, is it wrong for me to summarize that all of the problems of current CW make it is not suitable/interisting/something-similar to competitive clans/community?
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 15:04:21


Doctor K 
Level 61
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Not to pick on @eternity, specifically but, the post above beginning with Can someone explain to me why Fizzer had the time to..
This post heaps a lot of criticism on Fizzer. If I were Fizzer I would ignore this thread as well. It's a lot of criticism. Who needs that?
Fizzer put together a CW system that is not perfect, and never will be.

Finally, some of the people doing the most complaining about CW are the ones that win it "a lor"

Edited 15 oct

Edited 10/16/2022 05:53:35
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 15:08:56


Doctor K 
Level 61
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If you are here to be recruited by MB -- go read the comments here -- https://www.warzone.com/Forum/623626-busting-myth-myth-busters?Offset=20

If you want to be in a pressure cooker give it a try.

Edited 10/15/2022 20:54:21
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 15:22:56


Tac(ky)tical 
Level 63
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haterz r my motivatorz
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 15:23:57


stefano36000 
Level 62
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To be fair, you do say you'd like more stats about clan wars available in-game in the thread you're linking to. And the game might be free but it's still monetized (and so it should, I'm not complaining).
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 17:16:12


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Back on topic: MB is a great clan and everyone I know in it seems to really enjoy their experience. If you want to get top notch CW rewards, play with the best, probably level up your game, MB is the obvious choice. If CW is your hard constraint, MB should be your top choice.

Their skill cutoff isn't really so high. Anyone who understands the content covered by your run-of-the-mill strategy guide should be able to meet it.

Clearest value prop of any clan right now.

Edited 9/28/2022 17:23:49
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/28/2022 19:08:21


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/29/2022 02:31:35


FleXUS 
Level 64
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Finding all the possible recruits in this tread is not easy at the moment!
I suggest everyone interested just mail me instead! :)
Myth Busters are recruiting!: 9/29/2022 16:03:13


W@n
Level 52
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@Doctor
I know some in your clan have some unhappy feelings towards Flex, but that's no reason to lambast MB as a community.

I can tell you this: I have been in MB since day 1 (with my alt) and I'm still there, with no intention of leaving anytime soon.
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