Yet, somehow, you still got disqualified...

New Audit Panel Member : Fizzer
Profile Link : https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=62456969

Replacing : TheRiverStyxie
Profile Link : https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=1552135718

Other Member : Math Wolf
Profile Link : https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=253091943
By request of Math Wolf, this will not be voted on.

lol

Amazing.

no need to vote !! Fizzer is the best option to fill this position

Wow!

Fizzer is the most ridiculous pick for a community role i could think of. If i didn't knew math wolf wasn't trolling i'd think it was funny.

Back then fizzer changed the 1vs1 ladder after having a voting thread on the forum where like 30:3 players were in favour of keeping the old template.

He still didn't make the small change on the 3vs3 ladder template about advanced moves options.

Fizzer just doesnt care about the competitive community and shouldn't be involved therefore.

Math wolf, if you want to rule the audit panel on your own just say so. Using fizzer as a strawman who just follows your opinion if he voices any opinion at all is ridiculous.

kinda agree with mod,

also - much better for fizzer's reputation that he stays out of drama.

very strange to involve fizzer imo - would be very happy with math wolf being the sole auditor of the Audit Panel.

perhaps math wolf you could give us your thinking on your choice? (open to changing my mind on this)

Edited 6/26/2020 19:25:09

i mean if fizzer wants to be involved and wolf wanted him in audit panel sure I don't see a problem with it

good luck fizzer on being an audit panel member

Amazing.

Some people were disappointed with my short reply, so let me share my longer (and serious) thoughts:

1/ On the audit panel:

I believe the audit panel is - just like the ethics panel - utterly useless.
If you can't trust Cowboy to run the league and to arbitrate conflicts the way he sees fit, you shouldn't play CL. Go create another league with people you trust, and have fun there.
So if it was up to me, I'd rather remove a member from the audit panel rather than add one.

2/ On the fact that Math Wolf decided out of the blue that there would be no voting:

If CL players desesperately need an audit panel and an additional player on it, I don't mind if there's no voting.
The last thing we need is to waste everyone's time with another vote.

3/ On Fizzer being chosen:

Lol.
As far as I know, Fizzer has never taken any interest in Clan League, one way or another. So why choose him to decide on stuff he knows absolutely nothing about?
Like mod pointed out yesterday, it is not just the Clan League but the whole strategic community that is not high on Fizzer's immediate road map. And I get it. In his shoes, I would also prioritize stuff that benefit all Warzone players, rather than stuff that concern only the 0.1% players part of the strategic community. But given his priorities so far, why would he involve himself in Clan League now?
If for some reason he had a change of heart and he actually wants to develop the strategic community, the audit panel is without a doubt the worst place to start. Once he dives into his new job and witnesses the kafkaesque bureaucracy that CL has become, you can be sure he will run the other way as fast as possible.

Edited 6/27/2020 19:35:47

80% agree with rak

Can we please let Cowboy or someone else who's capable just run CL on their own? Let some people help with the organizing but let the actual organizer decide on issues. No Ethics Panel, no Audit Panel, no Template Panel, no unnecessary voting. Just a bunch of people helping the organizing, doing annoying work to relieve the organizer from spiraling into demotivation and voila. Don't agree with the decisions being made? You don't have to play. Whatever drama happens, and we've seen a lot of it, no clan has actually boycotted CL so far (and some promises of that were made; looking at you, Turtles).

In short, why not let people just deal with it.

There are three main arguments why Fizzer was my first choice to be in the audit panel and why I think this is a very good choice

(1) Audit panel doesn't organise and is rarely involved in decision making, it is a purely supporting role that tries to guarantee that CL is organized in a fair manner to the participating clans.

(2) Knowing that the creator and owner of the website is happy to let the community organise events like Clan League, and is willing to provide some oversight if needed, should be a major vote of confidence for everyone who wants to take events like these seriously, both in organising and joining them.

(3) I do believe Fizzer is among the people who would judge cases the most by their merits and from an objective point of view, having sufficient distance from the events to not let loyalties play a role. This is the most important feature of any audit panel member, I would say.




On a different topic: as a short reply to the recurring arguments in favour of "just let the organizer do whatever they want" whenever either the ethics or audit panel is mentioned:

I'm sure most of you remember that there were reasons for the change in structure of the organisation a few seasons ago, and they were agreed upon at that time by a clear majority of the clans active in CL at that time.
If a majority of clans would prefer a dictatorship structure for the organisers, this could actually be easily arranged. It is not written in stone that the current structure is the best or only way of organizing CL. If you want a major change (any major change for that matter, not just in organising structure), my main advice would be to try to find out if there is a strong base of support for this change and get a majority to agree with it. Else, you are just trying to push your own agenda, and/or creating drama at the expense of something most people agree upon.

Edited 6/28/2020 16:00:48

I'm sure most of you remember that there were reasons for the change in structure of the organisation a few seasons ago, and they were agreed upon at that time by a clear majority of the clans active in CL at that time.

It was a bad decision then, and the mess that unfolded since proves it quite clearly.

By "there were reasons for the change", I suppose you mean Beren and Deadman.
Were they normal players who handled their teammate's disappearance the best they could and ended up breaking the rules? Or instead, were they dirty little cheaters who desecrated Clan League to help their clans win it? Or perhaps, the unfortunate victims of a clever Lynx plot to take out the competition?
It doesn't matter, regardless of what Beren and Deadman did, they did it as players, not as CL organizers. They've never been accused of using their position as organizers to help their clans. So the dictatorship structure was never an issue.

Dictatorship is still the most efficient way to run any Warzone competition.

Look the recent Nations League. Rento made all decisions: rules, templates, expulsion of the irish team, etc...
It was a great success and no one accused him of being biased towards the polish teams.
If you compare it to the mess that surrounds Clan League (template selection for example), I don't see how you can still say that panelocracy is the way to go.

Edited 6/28/2020 18:38:10

So to sum up the arguments here:
- MoD: Fizzer is uninterested!
- Math Wolf: Fizzer is disinterested!

Hehe lol, things are getting spicy again. *rubs hands with glee*
Personally, in regards to the dictatorship issue, I agree that a dictatorship is the most efficient way to run things; however, I do think that this isn't great for potential rule breaks and template selection, because these things are too open to personal bias (even if unintentional). So even having just another few players, from different clans, who can come in on these issues would, I think, be fine.

Democracy vs Autocratic leadership, a fun debate to have but once reasonable arguments are made, you eventually conclude that it's best to have it on a case by case basis to provide the most optimal results.

If you go the pure autocratic route, yes it's efficient but it's not a long-term solution. The person organising will get burnt out, and when that person burns out, it can happen mid-season leading to complications or crashing of third-party sites. When this happened in CL10, It set the league back as a whole because we went back to normal tournaments CL11. We went backwards in overall progress of a league because all work was relied on Beren and Deadman. (Rakleader-Farah)

If you go the pure democratic route, It's a utopia idea. Perfect on paper but it's not practically acceptable to hold numerous votes and make CL essentially a government, where it's more debate making than decision-making. (Math Wolf/Frenchies).

But this isn't a choice of leadership style, given the high work of CL, you've got to try and alleviate all work of the organiser which is better for long-term health and progression of the league, otherwise you're in a stop/start of the league. I think people are missing this idea. I conclude that both sides are right but both sides are wrong at the same time, there needs to be a perfect balance.

This is what I propose as changes to the league moving forward.

1. Organiser gets full power, panels can keep making their amazing opinions but the recommended decision must be approved by the organsier which in this case would be cowboy. This formula works because the organiser should have the interests of the league in best thoughts.

2. Add back the template panel, if the organiser wants variety then it can set that as the "theme for the template panel" to follow. Template panel must ensure the proper settings to each template is followed.

I don't want to overwhelm people with changes so these important two steps are enough.

doesn't cowboy have full control/power? panels are just there for advice. he should pull the trigger on whatever he thinks makes the most sense.

I do not. Almost any of my decisions can be reversed by either panel, and I'm not allowed to rule on certain things.