This is getting ridiculous. From 1 turn stalling to "maybe he intended to stall to 1st". People are going crazy.

I'm so happy that no rules against stalling were implemented.

I’d like to welcome Rento back! This thread just wasn’t the same without Big Boy.

Rento it isn't important how many spam threads a spammer creates since it's annoying wheter it's one page or 50 pages. Same goes for stalling.

I doubt you'd go and say ''come on guys it were only 50 empty threads, are you seriously claiming it's bad? I see no rule against it''

I totally dislike intentional stalling.

Having said this, when we move to the ethic ground, I do not feel like I can judge the ethic / moral of a person that genuinely regards stalling as a strategic element and I doubt even the vast consensus of the community can.

We are fine until we regard stalling as unfair on the basis of common sense or community consensus, still condemning a staller is something different.

Assuming it is possible to read the intentions, I would say that:
A) If the staller knows he is doing something unfair, this is condemnable on the ethic ground.
B) If the staller regards stalling as part of the game, this is not condemnable on the ethic ground.

I tend to regard closer to B, grey areas, the like the person that has not a clear vision about what is fair and what is not. E.g. the person that thinks "many players stall the ladder. Hence I feel I should protect myself and use this weapon too".

So, well, I do not use stalling myself, I hate it, I regard it as unfair, but I cannot judge as unfair whoever uses it in good faith...

Hergul what if people keep stalling after you explain the consequences of stalling and the ladder mechanics to them, as i did to jojo?

I hate stalling, unless it is a game where surrenders have to be accepted by the other players.

@Hergul

Good point regarding that some players considering stalling part of the game and therefore those players are just playing the game to their interpretation. However, I would argue that stalling cannot be ethical because it fails the universal law test. If everyone were to stall out a loss, then every seasonal game could end in a force-finish. I assume everyone agrees that this is not the situation we want. Therefore the maxim of stalling being a valid strategy cannot be an ethical one.

rento, i still want my apology

@mod
you explained and he can keep thinking his way, because of reasons the like I said.
E.g. one can think that as other players do it, then you are just protecting your fair interest in not being penalized vs whoever use stalling.

@DrApe
I am not sure I get your general principle, but I feel there is in any case another problem here. There seems not to be a proper enforcing of the rules against taking advantage of the forced finish.
When a rule is not enforced and people can break it unpunished, then honest people can feel legitimately they can break the rules as well, just not to be penalised vs who breaks it unpunished.

Assume a scenario where 90% do not pay taxes and are not punished. Is it moral that I pay for all? or is it immoral if I do not pay?
When rules are not enforced we enter imho into grey areas.

So, ideally there should be a rule that forbids stalling and proper enforcing of it. On the contrary we can just remain in the field of opinions about what is fair and what is not.

I watched those 1v1 ladder alexclusive games and if this isn't stalling then I don't know what is. At least three 2-3 day turns after a clear point when game is unsalvageable, after turns that were played quicker than that. In multiple games, and clearly dependent on state of the game, not on a date. And it's not that those are hard turns, just complete losses. Sorry, but I don't buy the "1 turn stalling" thing.
P.S. Neither I ever stalled nor am I interested in witch hunting, I just point out stuff.

Edited 11/12/2019 00:21:34

I totally agree with Onoma and i don't see why someone should make a difference between stalling for a trophy or 1st place and stalling for regular ladder or random games. It just wastes opponents times, might annoy them or even affect their ladder performances, which in the later i don't think is really within the rules. If you're doing it yourself or in Rentos case make yourself ridiculous by defending obvious stalling cases, just be man enough to admit it instead. If you think stalling is ok, be man enough to just say it.

If you're talking about a community solution, might as well skip the bickering and just go straight for the good folks at the Azerbaijani Mafia? http://swkcw6eudl7lciek.onion/

After reading the thread, I would like to express my support to position presented by MoD.

@Rento:

When I downvoted with alts or used others account to down vote I said it was my fault and I said the acc count too, stopped at second time, as it lead to Pichu getting punished for my mistake-seems like an idiot getting confused with Meta/Metal/Mega Knight names and picked Meta Knight by using inky pinky ponky to ban. Sure you can criticize me for this or multi-accounting on ladder(before new rules came into effect), but don't think I was excusing stalling anywhere.

In CL10 and Cl11, in divisions I organized I wrote as request for players to not stall and both seasons I asked Avengers players to surrender games they were stalling. Problem is that most of the players in Avengers or in similar clans in qualifiers aren't involved big time in forums or wz discord to actually know what is stalling.

I am no lawyer like you to excuse stalling of players, so I didn't encourage them to stall and I am not a rule maker, so outside of suggesting and requesting players to not stall, surrender games which are lost, there is nothing I could've done. Maybe if you give the list of "everyone" who was bothered with it, I can discuss something with them to see what else I can do about it; if it is only krunx I don't like bad jokes.

@Hergul:
Rule is there to prevent taking advantage of forced finish; which means if a player stalls during end of season they can be punished.
Quoting Beren's post on ladder rules : 6.) Manipulation of the force-finish in the Seasonal Ladder is not allowed, and the use of vacations towards the end of a season leading to force-finish will be considered especially suspicious. Violations will be punished with a suspension. Fizzer retains the right modify results in egregious cases as has been done in the past possibly resulting in the loss of games and/or trophies.

@Fairplay Boy
I was referring to rules enforcment, as it happened that someone took advantage of forced finish mechanism and was not punished.

Everyone stalls once in a while. this thread is pointless. what will this thread do TO STOP STALLING? Nothing.

Santa Claus had a great post with great points.

If someone says in the game they are stalling, tell them to not, blocklist (if you are ok with it ;p) , and move on. MoD showed games of JoJo's and JoJo admitted he was stalling, which was good in the first place. But, stalling DOES get you better ladder partners and increases your rating more than a regular ladder game.

Unfortunately, there is no WarzoneWiKi article on this.

stalling in clan league is different then stalling in ladder games\regular games etc...

Stalling in regular games\ladder\FFa\team games you can tell them to stop, but who are they holding up again? most likely just you.

1v1 games: You can tell them to stop, but they are less likely to stop cause it is just you telling them. They may admit they are stalling (in ladder) to get better partners OR they may be stalling to just be a big pain.

Regular Games: This is most likely to stall to be a big pain. What reason is there to stall in this scenario? Most likely this will continue thru the game even if u tell them to stop. they will probably put up a good argument! I hope you put up better!

Team games and FFA's: Stalling in big team games and free-for-all's can be REALLY ANNOYING. it could be a 40 player game with 7 day boot time and one player could be holding each turn to the boot time. What I recommend is telling them to stop, first, in Private Chat. If they don't, start publicly discussing in Public chat and see if they then stop. One player who I see continuously stall is in Cats - Jason Walat: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=17698053 - I will find more games like this - https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=18424974 - two day boot time with Jason's average speed at 1 day 16 hours.

2 day boot time - started stalling as game went on - https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=18005654

his turn speeds -

2 hours 1 minute
1 day 21 hours
19 hours
1 day 4 hours
1 day 14 hours
1 day 19 hours
1 day 19 hours
1 day 4 hours
1 day 13 hours
1 day 17 hours
1 day 13 hours
1 day 23 hours
1 day 21 hours
1 day 23 hours
1 day 23 hours
1 day 22 hours

-Stretching it to the hour! -

if you can read the chats (most likely ur pc will turn off since there are so many), there were public complaints about his stalling -

I think that is all I have to say - Goodbye

@Fairplay Boy, I was also bothered by your clans excessive stalling in Clan League. Both as a clan leader (I led Illuminati at the time) and as someone who was just plain fed up with Avengers clan selfishly holding up the start of Divisions C and D by several weeks by stalling in a clan league game which was clearly lost.

What does the state judge Beren has to say about this?
Question is how big and long proper sentence should be for those who are arrested and found guility in code name action "Stynx Stallers", which will be served in Warzone State Penitentiary.

Edited 11/12/2019 16:27:02

@Hergul:
I mean we can only report from our side; some times players(moderators) who see the report may play favorite cards. I remember reporting many players for multi-accounting on ladder and sadly few players used to swap their accounts often which indicated that they probably didn't even receive a warning.

@ Awesome Cat:
Oh! Didn't know it; if you keep it to yourself or complain to Rento I can't know about it unless I ask him about it. Did you forget how to write such an exaggerated post/complain at that time itself or were you writing it to Ethics panel directly about it-if so do give some insight on their reply?


@Lighty:

I read your post before the edit xD

Stalling sucks but I don't see a way to fix it, so we just have to deal with it.

On ladders, only Fizzer can make any changes.

In competitions like Clan League, a fix is already being implemented by having a set schedule.