Voting is better.

It means a betterchance to give unfair advantage.

Vicersa i would have some fixed templates like 3vs3 eu so that a clan willing to compete CL would know 3, 6 templates are surely played

Sooo... the templates which are in the "Scores" tab have completely changed from yesterday. Are these the final, correct templates to assign lineups to? Right now, I am finding it incredibly difficult to try & follow what the heck is going on, and which information is accurate. I would wish for a single place where accurate information is posted by those running CL, with no additional questions, feedbacks or distractions from anyone else. I do not know how this can be implemented, but trying to sort through all of this is cumbersome.

3v3 Europe, Biomes
2v2 Final Earth, Guiroma, Cookies
1v1 Biomes, Elitist Africa, ME WR, British Raj, Guiroma, Hannibal


Those are the templates

Why cookies? I mean i have never saw it being popular

3v3 Europe, Biomes
2v2 Final Earth, Guiroma, Cookies
1v1 Biomes, Elitist Africa, ME WR, British Raj, Guiroma, Hannibal


Those are the templates

Please give us official template links (no game links)

Sooo... the templates which are in the "Scores" tab have completely changed from yesterday. Are these the final, correct templates to assign lineups to? Right now, I am finding it incredibly difficult to try & follow what the heck is going on, and which information is accurate. I would wish for a single place where accurate information is posted by those running CL, with no additional questions, feedbacks or distractions from anyone else. I do not know how this can be implemented, but trying to sort through all of this is cumbersome.

This is a good point and another thing that I also think needs to be improved that I am not sure how to improve. There are 20+ sheets on the google doc (8 are hidden atm) and that is after I deleted a few unused sheets. This is way to many to keep track of, and in addition there are forum posts etc. When it comes to the score tab, I didn't even realize players looked there for templates (same goes for template tab as well). The first place I placed stuff was in the Votes tabs (thru both the mentioned placed has been updated atm). In short, if there is an error in the doc, it could go unnoticed for a while (something not linking for example).

This is also the intended purpose of the announcement thread (in fact, that was my suggestion when it was implemented) and while that helps if doesn't solve the problem. (97 posts there atm, most of the posts are relevant as well).

I have frequently update the OP post in that thread, however it is (and likely always will) lag a bit behind the information posted elsewhere.

In fact, I haven't updated the groups tab with templates names yet either. Anyway, this was just as an aside that I do agree there is information overload. However, at least most of it is important so it's not easy to fix.

Ideally, the sheet would have a hidden "input" tab, where I could place information once and the entire sheet would reflect that info. However, that is not the case (yet at least).

Please give us official template links (no game links)

On WZ template links are unstable. That is, if you can update a template and suddenly the template link to cookies gives you a game on Bubble Wrap. The only way of safely storing settings is by using a game link, since games are final.

Edited 1/26/2019 21:15:27

But t I can not create games from a very old game where the attached template link is exceeded. See the 1v1 ME link, it leads to 1v1 MME

And since you plan different players to create tournaments with the templates you need to have these templates anyways. So why not share it officially?!

Edited 1/27/2019 02:21:02

I think voting is good. I am sorry for going off on SVT. I honestly was a little tuned out to CL admin stuff the past couple seasons (I got burnt out on CL admin which is why I stepped down). I did not even realize it was used last season :)

I still don't like it (for the HTH reasons I mentioned above), but I respect the decision and I am ready to kick some CL butt.

Good luck to all!

Edited 1/27/2019 16:39:35

Keep it as it is unless you want to reduce the workload that would be the condition I would personally support scrapping the system. Some clans are stronger at other templates than other clans so the best way to have templates is by having a voting system involving all the clans in A/B.

In a scenario that it is scrapped for that reason, I would want a panel of 2/3 that aren't involved in Clan League to decide the templates but this feels arbitrary as you could have templates that neither clan really want.

I prefer the conciliation method of the vote than the arbitrary method of having templates without the input of the clans involved. This is the way it should be preferred.

I mean, the voting workload is not too bad, however I am not happy with how much time it ends up taking. Compere the following (best case scenarios?).

Signups for CL 1 week.
Determine Divisions. (1 day?)
Voting (1 week).
(Lineups 1 week?).

This assumes that template nominations and rosters are planned well to not take extra time, but still gives ~ 3 weeks.

With no voting, several steps are not needed. Templates could be determined well in advance as well (during prev. CL even).

Templates made public.
Signup for CL (by providing a roster and a lineup (10 days?)*

*Q's might have to give lineups for both Q and B, in case of dropouts.

In the present scenario, we use extra time for voting (which means templates are not know well ahead of time and (new) clans get confused etc. While I like the concept of voting, it's slow so worth asking if that is really worth it. Having had many strategic competitions (WGL, MDL, Past CL, Ladders, etc etc. ) finding good templates is not hard (except 3v3?), it's making them diverse. A task perhaps better suited for a panel.

And since you plan different players to create tournaments with the templates you need to have these templates anyways. So why not share it officially?!

True, the tournament creators need to make the templates. They don't really need to keep them on had thru. If someone wants to make templates links, then sure. However, I will only use/refer to game links even if I say template link someplace.

Edited 1/27/2019 20:21:55

Like I mentioned, many people would like to have the templates chosen much earlier. Why do we have to choose them right before CL begins?

Have the panel prune the templates as always and have the vote for CL12 templates in the middle of CL11. That solves problems, right?

I've changed the map on the Cookies template to the latest version of the map without the wrong connection. The new template link is https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=1208128

The voting process is the most fairest way to decide the templates of the league. Though, if we need to treat time as a valuable resource there is an alternative method that's different to Rento's proposal which I disagree with because your CL templates votes are based on your player's strengths, you don't know who's playing CL12 during CL11, It makes no sense.

Have the 7 Clan Leaders from A, Ask the 5 clans that stayed in A to pick the 1v1 templates in a draft pick fashion from 1st to 5 which can be determined by RNG, Than switch the draft around and pick the remaining 1v1 and the 2v2s and 3v3s. Each clan in A got 2 templates that they wished and it's a somewhat fair process with the obvious con that the B promoted clans and the rest of the league got no input.

There's plenty of flaws to this but the cost of speeding up the process is fairness. You could be brainstorming for hours trying to formulate a system that balences time efficiency and fairness so you get enough of both under one system that needs community approval and audit approval.

I like the idea of a random draw. The panel gives us the normal number of templates and then a draw randomly chooses the templates. Less effort for everyone (besides the panel) and we're not ending up with the same templates as always.

The voting system itself is fair! The problem comes with the votes. Clans vote tactically in order to get "their" templates in.

Voting earlier is an idea, but has the drawback, that the people/clans who are voting are different to those who might actually play CL next season.

I think the chosen templates are fine and as always there are some I did not expect or would have voted, but that's how CL works.

Yeah, I would not mind having the template process earlier like Rento said. We'll get our lineup no problem, but a couple of the templates we have almost no experience on and it would be nice to warm up on them next time.

Did people actually knowingly vote for British Raj base map without overridden bonuses?

That's what the example game above shows: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=11759918


This is what the British Raj template people actually play and likely thought they were voting for looks like: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=17471679

It has 4 overridden bonuses, which makes the map less balanced, but more strategic, similar to how ME is more strategic than MME despite being less balanced.

I gotta agree with Nauzhror here.

On another note, the template for Cookies is wrong. It's set to full distribution when it should be random warlords

While I vastly prefer the version of Raj in QM and MDL to what AWP used, and think some people voted on the assumption of it being the other version, both are playable. Cookies being full Dist is a way bigger issue in my eyes.