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Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/18/2018 00:43:28

[WG] Reza
Level 60
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If you take Worst as meaning - Then if you take the modulus of that it becomes positive.
Wait no, that is a vector/matrice

Edited 5/18/2018 00:43:52
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/18/2018 00:44:29


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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101st must stand for how many attempts it took you to think of even the most barely passable insult.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/18/2018 19:06:33


Onoma94
Level 61
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Ouch, I didn't expect Hydra to fail this hard. :x On the other hand... their competition isn't that easy either.
Good job so far, TJC!
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 05:21:55


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Comprehensive Update IV:

Soooup!

Guys, I just created a delicious soup today. Let me describe it. I started with two poblano peppers. Diced them up. Threw them in the bottom of the saucepan and browned em in a little butter. Then i chopped up some carrots, celery, and spinich and added it in there. For taste, 3 cloves of garlic minced. Put in a tablespoon in a half of vegtable base (carrot, tomato, onion base) and let her simmer. I put in a little too much carrot so the broth ended up sweeter than ideal, but it made for a delicious, hearty vegetable soup with a little bit of zing in it from the poblanos. I couldent taste much of the celery tho. RIP.

So, there are quite a bit of flavors in this soup of a division B. We have the carrots (Sninja), the plobanos (TJC), the spinich (statisticains), the soup base (WG), the garlic (Hydra), and the Celery(FCC). Its a nice set of flavors that do make for a delicious soup, but dang that carrot definitely protruding through the texture.

Anyway, it seems little has changed in the status or direction these clans are heading on. It continues to look to be an intense three clan race for the second slot, with Sninja still hanging strong to the lead.

So here is where we are:

Quick Update: By Points Scored:

TJC 			39
WG			39
Sninja			35
Statisticians		22
Hydra			18
FCC			3


Quick Update: By Max Points:

Sninja			197
TJC			181
Statisticians		180
WG			179
Hydra			163
FCC			144

Completed Games: (Bold detonates winner)

TJC and and WG may have the points lead, but Sninja didn't lose a game either, which is more telling. Its safe to say that 1st is Sninja's slot to lose at this point. TJC holds a slight edge over stats and wg, but they still have to fight fiercely to ward off the close competition if they desire to promote. News from FCC notes that dippy has now gone inactive and is proceeding to boot from clan league games. Their stupid clan leader still refuses to flip out the slot. RIP and here comes 0-6 on Elitist Africa and 1-5 on Guiroma. Take out one more 2v2 game and there's the last nail on the probable relegation coffin.

Finished Games:

1v1: Guiroma


Statisticians vs FCC		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15526314 (5/13)
Sninja vs FCC			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15594097 (5/13)
TJC vs WG			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15526315 (5/13)
Statisticians vs TJC		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15594096 (5/17)

1v1: French Brawl

Hydra vs WG			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15573141 (5/13)
WG vs TJC			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15642525 (5/19)

1v1: Elitist Africa:

Hydra vs FCC		 	https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15615225 (5/19)
TJC vs Hydra		 	https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15478680 (5/19)

2v2: Final Earth

Care for a cuppa tea?

2v2 Volcano Island

WG vs Hydra 			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15580811 (5/16)

2v2 Szeurope

They must of not have completed a game in fear that szeweningen would think 
they were not taking the template seriously enough.

3v3 Europe

WG vs Statisticians 		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15540389 (5/16)

3v3 Biomes

Are they done yet? Are they done yet? Are they done yet? Are they done yet? Are they done yet? Are they...


Edited 5/20/2018 16:06:07
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 05:23:39


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Progressions:



Horse Race:



Analysis:

Someone grab the AED! FCC has flatlined!

No change in course from last week. The first four clans continue their tight dueling. Hydra has had a falling out a bit, but it isn't as dire as FCC's situation as only one clan relegates. Hydra has been preforming the better of the two poor performers, so that's your decider right there.

Anyway, I could keep chatting about the same stuff, but it be basically a rehashing of the current course. Sninja has had a really good performance, exceeding expectation to nail a ticket to A. And FCC is destined to gracefully step out and let the better clans of C take over the slot.

That's all.

Edited 5/20/2018 16:06:37
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 07:48:00


Roi Joleil
Level 60
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hmmm well XD

i think were winning.... if were flipping the list upside down :P
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 11:03:03


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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A few comments on this.

I think it's too early to say Sninja will promote. They are the favorites at this point, but I can easily still see both TJC and WG promoting as well for example, both have already more points scored than Sninja. Because barely any games are finished on Szeuropa (4/win), Final Earth (4/win) and Biomes (5/win), and with not all that many more finished on the other team games, it's not clear how strong each of the teams are on those templates. A few wins/losses here and there could mix up the top 3 completely. And there are of course 3 more 1v1 that have yet to start. I'd wait for a few more games to finish for Sninja before really declaring them a lock for promotion.

WG looks better than their score indicates, they are 6-0 in team games with 4-7 on 1v1. They have finished a lot more 1v1 though, so it is possible that they will have a higher win rate, and score rate, in their remaining games.
If you compare this with the teams in front of them: Sninja that are 4-0 in team and 6-1 on 1v1 and TJC that are 4-1 in team and 7-5 in 1v1. Therefore, I think WG is not all that far behind those 2.

Hydra meanwhile looks worse than their score indicates because they are currently 0-5 on the team games compared to 6-5 on 1v1. If you compare that with Stats, a similar team in scoring in front of them: they (we) are 1-3 on the team games compared to 6-2 on 1v1.

So I think it's better to talk about a top 3 that are in the mix for promotion at this moment, with Stats not completely to be counted out for promotion and Hydra a long shot. FCC is by all means the favorite for relegation, but it's not over. Compared to Hydra, FCC has to win 10% more of their remaining points to tie. That's not impossible, but from what I understand, not likely to happen.

Of course, this doesn't take into account remaining match-ups, but I can't check those because the CL website is down, again.

Edited 5/20/2018 11:03:13
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 11:06:19


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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Two questions for Aura:

* Maybe update the first post every now and then?

* Is the "only one clan relegates from B" information verifiable? (i.e. Where can we find this info, can someone confirm this, I seem to have overlooked this?)

Edited 5/20/2018 11:06:26
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 11:22:47


│ [20] │MASTER│ Rikku │ I love my wife │ • apex │
Level 61
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Good updates from Aura and MW. Personally I want to finish 3rd and think in the long run this season positions will slowly reflect that.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 11:42:38


8549176320
Level 38
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Is the "only one clan relegates from B" information verifiable? (i.e. Where can we find this info, can someone confirm this, I seem to have overlooked this?)
It was in CL10 stream and is written in CL10 Discord too. Since, there are 6 clans in Div.B now-CL panel decided to have 2 promotion spots and 1 relegation spot to make B to have7 clans next season.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/20/2018 14:42:51


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Yeah I need to update that first post. Forgot about it tbh. When I get on the computer I will.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/21/2018 17:31:25


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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As hinted at before, I wanted to check the match-ups of the finished games to see if some clans had more advantage from feasting on weak clans so far.
Meet the ASOS metric for this. ASOS=adjusted strength of schedule, I defined this as the win % of opponents in games against the other teams. If your ASOS is high, it means your opponents won often against other clans, if your ASOS is low, it means your opponents lost often against other clans. In this case: play often against Sninja or TJC for a high ASOS, play often against FCC for a low ASOS. Because of the balanced nature of the competition, all teams will end Clan League with an ASOS of 50%. An ASOS of 55% is considered a difficult schedule, a 60% ASOS is a very difficult one, an ASOS of 45% is considered a weak schedule, while an ASOS of 40% is considered very weak.

Sninja:           2 TJC, 2 WG, 1 Stats, 2 Hydra, 4 FCC, ASOS: 40.55% (games), 39.46% (points)
   TJC: 2 Sninja,        3 WG, 4 Stats, 5 Hydra, 3 FCC, ASOS: 53.48% (games), 52.00% (points)
  [WG]: 2 Sninja, 3 TJC,       3 Stats, 5 Hydra, 5 FCC, ASOS: 42.61% (games), 39.07% (points)
 Stats: 1 Sninja, 4 TJC, 3 WG,          2 Hydra, 2 FCC, ASOS: 51.90% (games), 54.46% (points)
 Hydra: 2 Sninja, 5 TJC, 5 WG, 2 Stats,          3 FCC, ASOS: 52.90% (games), 55.63% (points)
   FCC: 4 Sninja, 3 TJC, 5 WG, 2 Stats, 3 Hydra,        ASOS: 53.74% (games), 54.71% (points)

Before I started, I thought this might not say much actually, but to my surprise, it actually does tell us a lot! You can clearly see that Sninja and WG have been feasting on the weaker teams a lot more! For both clans, more than half of their games have been against Hydra and FCC. For [WG], more than half of their points are from wins against FCC even! (20 out of 39). This gives them a very weak strength of schedule so far. Meanwhile, the other clans have a very similar schedule, all just a little higher than expected to compensate. If you look at this, TJC looks a lot stronger than their record indicates, and [WG] actually looks weaker. Their ([WG]) good team record? Mainly FCC feasting...

I went one step further and used this to (very) naively predict the remaining games/points. I wanted to get a first idea if this actually means that TJC has a reasonable chance to still tie Sninja.
Method (skip this if you don't like the juicy math details) I did this in a Bayesian way by giving every team a 50% prior head start (a theoretical 10/20 points won). For every game won or lost, the number of points were added. This gives Sninja now a hypothetical 45/58=77.58% win rate rather than their real 35/38 record. This is to allow regression to the mean. In each remaining game, I pit the two teams and divide the points proportional to the hypothetical win rate. E.g. a 2v2 between Sninja and Stats (WR=51.61%) would earn Sninja 2.4 point (4 * 77.58% / (77.58%+51.61%)). This is obviously not the best way to do this, but it's the quickest to do without spending another hour writing code (which I might still do). The final results are as follows:

Sninja: 137
   TJC: 121
  [WG]: 113
 Stats: 106
 Hydra:  88
   FCC:  35

I find it noteworthy that according to this method, FCC is really behind the others at one end, while Sninja may not be as dominant as their current record indicates. Hydra is closer to Sninja than to FCC!
Of course, this methodology is very crude and there is obviously a lot of variation in the results, but I found it quite interesting nevertheless.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/21/2018 19:43:35


dry-clean-only 
Level 63
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Very interesting read, thanks for putting it together!

One thing we can't factor in is that a lot of results out so far are from 1v1 games and due to the schedule (Three 1v1's starting now, three after midseason) there's no telling how the line ups will match up after the midseason :)
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/21/2018 20:36:09


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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After spending 2 hours coding, I came up with a better simulation method (that is still very limited due to, among other things, what dry-clean-only just said above). The results are a little different. Note: because of the way the program is written, I can semi-manually update these simulation every so often if people are interested in that.
Details of the calculation below. (std=standard deviation, PI=prediction interval)

           mean   (std)    95% PI
1. Sninja 138.65 (13.19) [112-164]
2. TJC    116.04 (11.32) [ 93-138]
3. [WG]   108.52 (11.33) [ 86-130]
4. Stats  104.38 (12.72) [ 79-130]
5. Hydra   85.23 (11.44) [ 63-108]
6. FCC     47.17 (11.09) [ 27-70 ]

               1       2       3       4       5       6
  Sninja  83.67%  11.27%   3.74%   1.20%   0.12%   0.00% 
  TJC     10.17%  45.90%  28.47%  13.41%   2.03%   0.02% 
  WG       3.49%  24.28%  35.79%  30.02%   6.40%   0.02% 
  Stats    2.61%  17.52%  27.50%  38.90%  13.36%   0.11% 
  Hydra    0.06%   1.03%   4.49%  16.45%  76.36%   1.61% 
  FCC      0.00%   0.00%   0.01%   0.02%   1.73%  98.24% 

I personally think the simulations do a good job of matching common sense given the results we have so far and looking at the strength of schedule. The only thing I'm a little weary about, is the score of FCC. I think they may not even got to 27 points, the lower bound of the prediction interval. The reason that the simulations are quite bullish about them, is of course the 10 points from the prior. The program still gives FCC somewhat the benefit of the doubt as it does not know that more boots are still coming.




Juicy math details: in this simulation, I calculated for each clan their score on a logit scale and used this to predict the outcome of the remaining games. First, I again counted the points won and lost by each clan, again adding 10 points won and lost for each clan (burn-in prior). More specifically, I assumed 2 points won and lost against each other clan. From this result, I approximated scores on the logit axis that would reflect the results best using the optim function in R. In more detail: I minimized the squared differences between of the observed logodds calculated as log( win%A / win%B ) in A-B matchups (so win%B is 1-win%A) and the expected logodds for the scores of the 6 clans (score(clan A)-score(clanB)) for the 15 pairings.
Then I made an educated guess for the variance of these estimates where I made sure that it was proportional to the product of the number of points won (including the +10 from the start) and the number of points lost (again including this +10). (If I had more time, I could bootstrap this, but alas.) I chose the formula 10/sqrt(points won*points lost) for the standard deviation because it gives a std of 1 in the case of no information, which I found adequately wide for a non-informative prior. (A team with a score of +2 has a 99% probability to win against a team with a score of -2).
From these calculated scores and their standard deviation, for each simulation a score was drawn. The points in the remaining games were then calculated for each clan under the assumption that the true level of the clan was equal to this simulated score. The win% (for team A) was simply the result of the logodds calculation again, resulting in: sqrt(exp(score A-score B))/(1+sqrt(exp(score A-score B))). Because my input from before did not include the difference between 1v1 and teamgames, I was lazy again and simply assigned wins per 3 points remaining (with a final group of 4 or 5 as appropriate). I think this will not meaningfully influence the results though.
Finally, all these scores were summed and voila!

If anyone wants my R code to improve or add more simulations, feel free to send me a PM or ask here. Note that all CL results were manually input though.

Edited 5/21/2018 20:38:46
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/21/2018 22:32:40


John Titor
Level 56
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hmmm, I guess for stage 2 the results will deviate a lot, at-least for clans bringing in newer players to roster.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/22/2018 04:59:27


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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very interesting stuff Math Wolf.

Hydras got us on Szeurope (which I have never really gotten the hang of, but am forced to play all the time in CL).

I still can't believe that it made it in over Strat 2v2. Two tournaments on EU, FAIL.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 01:20:21


Beren Erchamion 
Level 64
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We've had multiple templates on the same map many times. At the end of the day, the map itself doesn't matter - it's all about the template itself.

Edited 5/23/2018 01:21:05
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 01:33:24


(deleted) 
Level 62
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Because you are bad on a template doesn't make it a fail.

It's a decent template, there aren't enough 2v2 and 3v3 templates and I think nobody would begrudge anybody from making more team templates.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 02:30:04


Master Cowboy 
Level 60
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I do agree that maps being used multiple times is kinda meh, but like beren said, this is nothing new (Gui and 2v2 Gui in CL9).

That being said, despite my hatred of the template, sze i am ok with, because by saying no duplicate uses of maps, you're basically saying Sze should never be played, because let's be honest, despite buns best effort, 3v3 EU is going nowhere.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 02:49:47


(deleted) 
Level 62
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If you are being forced to play Szeurope, recruit more players to play it for you. If you don't like the idea of playing different templates on the same map, You can play on templates on different maps. But to say it's a fail is beyond dumb.

Even more dumb that WG voted the template top 3 in the voting templates. Why would you vote it top 3 if you had no players that were going to play it, and complain about being forced to play it?
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