see above +1

Edited 7/15/2016 10:35:53

@Min34: Of course. That's why I pointed out he was online:

- multiple times
- for meaningful stretches of time
- took enough actions for his "last seen" to update during those times

If he had enough time to do that, he had enough time to take one turn in less than 2d15h.

Aside from the debates, I wanted to share something interesting- the opinions of MisterT's actions (well, this is what I think they are):

A) He did not stall his last turn (or fairly won the season, or had no problems with his playspeed/position in this particular game):
Me (congrats to MisterT btw, well done!), Ollie (maybe- not sure), Norman (on the fence?), Motoki, Ctrl Alt Delete, Peixoto

B) He did stall his last turn (or unfairly won the season):
LeQuébécois_Benoit, timon92 (references to JV), Norman (on the fence?), Turkish, knyte, JSA, rouxbourg

C) Or they're on the fence (can't choose):
Ox (wants another game w/ custom scenario), Norman (on the fence?)

---

Clearly shows that me and some GG members have the same opinion (as for Norman I can't tell), but that players in clans other than GG or clan-less players despise of MisterT's actions. While I do see how this may be unfair to others (in particular alhazi (2nd), and ACL Tears), the main reason why I'm with option A is because he played faster and also visibly made attempts to get the game moving- well before the season would've ended. Feel free to disagree with me- just my honest opinion

I'm not solidly B. I don't think this is serious enough for MisterT to be stripped of his title. Just think this is how it went:

- MisterT plays the game, ACL Tears plays slowly

- MisterT tries to speed things up, ACL Tears unresponsive; MisterT gets Fizzer to speed things up, little to no effect

- It's 5 turns in and ACL Tears as been the slower player in 3 of them

- MisterT's life gets a bit busier, although he still has time to check WL and take turns (even if he decides not to)

- ACL Tears wants to finish the game now, it's close to even and he's got a shot (something like 30-70); he definitely doesn't want it to get decided by formula

- MisterT's logs in a few time, checks the game but decides "hey, screw that guy- he brought this onto himself." He realizes that he's already won the game and season if he doesn't take his turn, so hey what's the point? Plus he's busy anyway, even though he could take his turn, he'd rather not take the risk. He's busy enough to rationalize it away.

- Season ends. MisterT wins like he probably would've anyway if he'd taken his turns. By formula and stalling, he dodges the last threat he had to winning #1.

It's not particularly egregious behavior, especially since it only happened for 1 turn. But just something that we shouldn't condone or defend, either. Tainted MisterT's win at least, but not enough to cast doubt on him being #1.

Edited 7/15/2016 10:48:17

No need to defend yourself, MisterT. ACLTears is a great guy who was just salty for getting a mail from Fizzer. Maybe you two can work it out, he is famous for his slow play (https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11255378 for example). As for the other guys throwing around accusations around here, they are far from being neutral but just snitches and low level trolls, just ignore them. Replying to them involves the risk of sinking down to their level, everyone can see your games and see that they were played out fairly.

Edited 7/15/2016 11:00:15

Now, M'Hunters with AI? That's a more egregious case. That's a good example of the kind of cheating we should take action against. :P

This is nothing but a drop in the ocean compared to M'Hunters.

Edited 7/15/2016 10:49:22

@ MisterT: Nobody but knyte and ACL says you don't deserve the win. Well deserved imo! Congrats
Dont give a f*ck about this thread

Edited 7/15/2016 11:05:05

Ah, just what MisterT needed. The endorsement of an actual cheater.

Here is what i do when i am busy.. I have the app on my phone so i check in 2 or 3 times a day to make sure I dont get booted. Logging in takes me about 3 seconds. Checking how long i have before getting booted another 5 seconds. Takes me less then half a minute a day but it showed i was online 3 times that day on my profile.

Serious games, like misterT's deciding seasonal game, take me easily 15 minutes to determine what i am gonna do cause i want to go through every possible scenario. Considering he does have 8 other games, which might have shorter times before he got booted its very possible he still got forced to spent more time on warlight then he already had (speaking from experience on this point)

Lets just sum up the facts:

1. Both players claim they were busy during a part of the game but acl spent 5 times as much time being busy then misterT

2. Visable for us misterT did several attemps to speed the game up which all got ignored by ACL

3. ACL claims not to have read the messages from misterT. Possible that its true he didnt READ them but i dont believe at all he didnt SAW them. In other words he CHOOSE not to read them. He saw a message from Fizzer within a day while didnt see any message from misterT for 6 days

4. MisterT behaved like an adult at all times. He messaged ACL in all possible ways for several days, when he went out of options contacted fizzer directly about what to do. When misterT takes his time for 1 turn ACL goes screaming on the forum in the hope the community will turn against MisterT (which he ofc achieved cause the biggest screamer always wins on the internet...) because he also knew he stalled to much for fizzer to take him seriously

5. MisterT askes us for days in our clan chat desperately how he could speed it up. He wanted to report him sooner and put a forum post about it. Several people, including me, advised him not to make a forum post but wait a few days to give ACL the chance to speed up. When he didnt he had to report him to keep he chances alive at winning the seasonal.

6. I guess this is preferential but everybody complaining about misterT taking the win with a 'possible' stall of 1 turn while otherwise a known staller took first place? Its not a coincedence half the community calls him stalhazi

@ knyte: Actually I don't think that he takes your opinion more seriously than mine...

Edited 7/15/2016 11:33:40

3. ACL claims not to have read the messages from misterT. Possible that its true he didnt READ them but i dont believe at all he didnt SAW them. In other words he CHOOSE not to read them. He saw a message from Fizzer within a day while didnt see any message from misterT for 6 days

Same logic works for MisterT. It's not hard to take 15 minutes out of your day unless you're at the hospital or doing surgery. He chose to not take turns for those last 2 days, too, especially if he was able to log in.

"Busy" is just a rationalization- being "too busy to take a turn" is a choice about how you plan on allocating your time. MisterT clearly didn't think it was important enough to properly finish the Seasonal Ladder over whatever else he was "busy" with IRL. That's still a choice.

@Ollie: stalhazi finished his last game on the Seasonal before it ended. He couldn't conceivably have won the Seasonal Ladder from stalling.

Edited 7/15/2016 11:46:15

stalhazi finished his last game on the Seasonal before it ended.

I dunno, it looks autofinished along with others that ended at 3:38/3:39 (CET)

Yep, looks like you're right. alhazi also looks like he just slowed down during that very last turn.

Edited 7/15/2016 12:16:43

Very nice season Mister, congratulation T !!!

This thread is just a big, salty joke.

"- Blablabla you cheater you stallin' !
- Nah ! I didn't ! you are cheating and stalling blablabla
- No it's not me it's you !!!"

Gratz for winning the season anyway

Edited 7/15/2016 13:13:41

For those who wants to argue here is the top 10 assuming MisterT lost his last game.

   1 alhazi                          2274  195  160    20   85%  1919    0%
   2 MisterT                         2248  201  165    20   85%  1875    0%
   3 FlyingBender                    2228  181  148    20   80%  1954    0%
   4 MIFRAN                          2215  182  154    20   80%  1936    0%
   5 ACLTears                        2199  230  184    20   90%  1684    0%
   6 Turkish                         2171  189  164    20   80%  1835    0%
   7 JV                              2128  172  157    20   75%  1870    0%
   8 USABiches                       2075  171  149    20   75%  1847    0%
   9 Timinator                       2073  186  161    20   75%  1809    0%
  10 Buns157                         2051  170  151    20   75%  1793    0%

That being said, it is not really important whether MisterT stalled (or whether stallhazi stalled for that matter) It is not any individual players foult, but as JSA pointed out, the (alleged) stalling is basically created by the system.

EDIT: Also, the rating/ranking system in seasonal works horrible, in my opinion. 20 games is just not enough, when you have 373 players in the ladder.

Edited 7/15/2016 15:57:53

Funny that the slow player lacks patience.
Congratz on the win.

Someone's salty here

Damn right I'm salty. This will be my last post about this since I don't want to waste any more time on it. I agree that the system for the end of the Seasonal Ladder needs to be improved. All of this nonsense stems from the end of season rules. This has come up in the past (JV win) and will come up again. I seem to remember a lot of drama about someone taking vacations to get games to the tiebreaker instead of playing them out. Fizzer intervened there. Stalling out the last turn to avoid finishing the game seems like a less egregious version of that, but I guess that's ok as long as you play the beginning of the game fast enough. This is really a shame because I think the Seasonal Ladder is the most fun thing on warlight.

From what I see in the game, MisterT has the advantage before turn 6 and ACL has the advantage on turn 6 and would continue to win if the game carried on, provided that he knew what has to be done, and the advantage will only be fully apparent at least 3 turns later. It is also coincidental that MisterT didn't commit for turn 7.

From ACL's point of view, there were 3 possible reasons why he wanted to play fast after turn 6.
- He got a warning from Fizzer
- He knew he was going to win
- He was planning to get the 5 bonus and stall the next turn to win

About the playing speeds of the players, MisterT is one of the fastest players here while ACL Tears is one of the slowest. It's obvious MisterT was stalling.

Was MisterT right to stall? If he believed that ACL was planning to get the 5 bonus and stall the next turn to win, then MisterT is right, but if MisterT believed that he was going to lose if he played on, and thus chose to stall, then he would be wrong. Only they know what they knew, no one can judge them based on the limited amount of information we have.

Edited 7/16/2016 08:21:28