https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=41392010 I had a discussion with dry-clean-only regarding the possible clan league format. We both got a few of our points across regarding our preference, so might be worth posting here.

tldr past 1/3-1/2 through.
i’d say “get a room” but you did and shared it.

Octane - You just wanted to show off that you finally managed to beat me ;)

(jk my win rate is probs about 20%)

I see the value in making changes to Clan League especially to speed it up, however I think if the changes become a whole reworking of the promotion/relegation system it makes more sense to just start a different event.

My ideal change to speed up CL would be something like 3 day boot (or 2 for 1v1 and 3 day for teams) + 5 day bank to start, no vacations, and use the setting that allows you to regain banked time based on how much time was left when you commit your orders. Something like 12hours, for each day you had left would be fine I think.

I think that change could lead to faster games while still allowing for a longer picking phase, gives leeway for people that need more time at some point during the league, and doesn't allow people who constantly use their max time to delay that much longer the regular boot time unless they also make a few turns quickly.

Reducing the amount of days between game allocation is also a great idea to speed up the league. It may put more pressure on people with multiple slots but that shouldn't be an issue for the league format to solve but instead the clans when they are creating their roster.

I've seen it brought up a few times that it shouldn't take 4 years for a talented clan to get to Div A - I agree, however if we reduce the amount of time the league takes and cap the amount of divisions to 3, rather then adding on a Div D like we've seen in the past I can see a new clan promoting into Div A within 1.5-2 years which seems like a reasonable amount of time for a promotion/relegation system. Capping it to 3 tiers would require reworking how promotion works from Div C with a playoff format if there's too many groups in C maybe? Or have larger groups but with a reduced amount of games.

I've also seen it mentioned that the lower tiers are a waste of time for clans that have potential to make it into Div A. My counter to that would be where is the line that makes it a waste of time? Is it winrate? Yeah Mythbusters have won Div D and C with a 90% win rate, and are leading this current seasons with an 82% winrate, but Master also won the past two seasons with a 75% winrate in Div A. Were those seasons also a waste of time for Masters?

It should also be noted that Mythbusters have been a bit unlucky in that their competition has been a bit watered down, their first season had 3 Division D groups, and this current season 1 clan moved down from A, 3 moved up from B, and 4 moved up from C. Was their climb inevitable? Probably. But there has been plenty of clans that have grown in talent over time and plenty that have collapsed.

Optimum is currently leading Div A, they promoted into Div A after a second place Div B finish in CL16 behind blitz, the next season blitz relegates back down and Optimum manages to finish third in A after adding several people onto their roster. Or what about FCC winning A in CL14 and relegating down to C After CL16.

Div A is perceived to be the pinnacle of competition but in reality the only reason for that is that there hasn't been another real alternative for clans. I'm sure we could go back and find multiple clans in the past that were in Div C or lower but could have been competitive in A with their rosters. It's never been an perfectly accurate way of finding the best of the best and that's okay.

It would be great to have more high level competitions especially ones that allow clans that haven't established themselves as "elite" to quickly face the strongest competition there is, but I also think there's a place for a format that lets clans progress through tiers over time. So instead of changing CL into something that it's never been the clan community should support the creation of some new events that fill the holes that a promotion/relegation league can't. While also still allowing CL to exist in a format, similar to it's current one, that rewards longevity and growth.

Edited 2025-05-31 08:02:56

I really like those suggestions for changes - I think the one thing that most people agree on is that boot times can shorten.

People have also mentioned less slots cap but if reducing the gap between games as suggested it would just discourage people from 3 slotting. Banning it outright may be a little silly however as it would make it harder for clans to fill a whole roster. Putting the choice back on clans when setting up their roster does sound sensible there.

CORP would definitely take part in two interclan competitions if they were run in tandem. A quicker clan league with supporting cup sounds lovely to me tbh

League and cup sounds great. Getting rid of the league sounds awful. Like dry, I've spent many many years getting to division A with my clan. An extra cup tournament would be awesome, and then we could field more players from within the clan. Getting rid of the divisions would make it less meaningful.

however I think if the changes become a whole reworking of the promotion/relegation system it makes more sense to just start a different event.

The problem with doing this would be that you would divide the playerbase. Most clans wouldn't have enough players to field two lineups, and would choose just one event to participate in, while the ones who do would put their strongest lineup on the event they care more about. This would result in less overall activity for both events, and weaker competition, so we should just try to stick to one version of Clan League.

most clans have enough players who would be willing to participate in both. if they don't, i assume they'd prioritise the league over the cup. league is better

If a cup as an additional event was pursued (which I do not recommend, for the reasons outlined by Octane above), it would ba advisable to make it require much fewer players than CL. That would make it more realistic for clans to be able to participate in both.

If the p/r system is removed, the whole idea of clan league is gone.

If the other event is not a round robin then adding on too many games seems like a manageable issue.
I completely understand not wanting to take on more games. I'm at the low end of people who actively play as I try to stick to 2 active games at a time unless I'm participating in a ladder.

In my experience most people who actively play warzone are in 3+ games at a time, with many sitting at double or triple that amount, for the people that are in the high end amount of games one additional game at a time doesn't seem like a big ask.
And speaking from my own perspective as someone who keeps a low amount of games, adding on one additional game at a time for a clan event would be something I'd be willing to do.

Let's also not ignore that there's a push to speed up clan league which implies people have extra time they could dedicate to split their attention. Also the playerbase is already split. As several people pointed out CL's current format is already not the most welcoming for startup clans, so the argument that keeping just one event would preserve some level of participation or competition is moot.

Edited 2025-05-31 18:48:30

I feel like the opinions being brought by CORP are the opinions that will run CL into the ground. They speak for those who have fought and bled under the prior system and as a result they do not want to have their hard work and sacrifice devalued by a change to how it is run(specifically regarding how clans move up and down). As a result they wish to keep their glory at the risk of becoming a dying breed.

If a majority want a complete reformating of how the league is structured then I'd welcome it. As is though it's just a discussion and I wanted to offer a counter point to the changes being proposed.

Edited 2025-05-31 21:51:26

The opinions CORP are presenting are the opinions that have kept clan league running for 18 seasons. The type of system described by others has never successfully run long term.

You describe our participation in CL like it's us suffering under the system but I've never enjoyed anything on WZ like I've enjoyed clan league - even in seasons I relegated with my clan.

Edited 2025-06-01 02:03:03

These are great ideas that I don't think would find many people against it:

3. Introduce Tiered Divisions
Tier 1 - Division A has the Top 5 seeded Clans - the Clan finishing top is Champion and the Clans finishing 4 & 5 are relegated.
Tier 2 - Division B1 & B2 have Clans seeded 6-15 - the Clans Finishing top are Division Champions and they promote to Division A. The bottom Clan in each Division is demoted.
Tier 3 - Division C1, C2, C3, ....Cn have the remaining Clans in divisions of 5 Clans or fewer where the top Clan from each is promoted.

* In the even that there are more than two Divisions in Tier 3, more Clans will demote from Tier 2 much of that will be managed in concert with new Clans joining and others retiring.

4. Reduce Banked Time
1v1 games to 7d
2v2 to 10d
3v3 to 12d

Honestly, the variance of skill in Div A has been crazy not just this year but also realier. Making it just 5 clans would be it more balanced I think. On the other hand I feel like clans 6-15 are close enough to each other in skill that it would make sence to have them in same division. Only problem with this is to decide who would play in Div A next season.

Banked times should be reduced indeed, and single player turn time can be considered, but please dont touch team game turn time...

I don't think that your conclusion in the variance of skill in Div A vs the clans in rank 6th-15th is very well supported tbh. For example Hawks is currently 6th and they have close to a 40% win rate in Division A.

Meanwhile in B there is a similar a spread of results in the division as there is in Division A.

For example in Divisiom B the IQR of PC% is 33% compared to 25% in Division A suggesting a bigger gap in quality in Division B compared to in Division A. (And that excludes both that MB are outliers in Div B completely and TLA are likely outliers in Div A).

But I don't think a move to Tiered divisions is a bad idea as and when they are needed for the number of clans. But this has happened in the past naturally when the number of entering clans happened to be much higher.

I'm not quite sure why we're considering groups of 5 clans each when 6 feels so much more natural.

I think it would be difficult to drop the number in the groups from 7 to 5 with no warning because you'd then have to relegate Harmony and Icelandic Turtles from Div A to Div B. Not to mention the horrific knock on effects that would have on the rest of the divisions.

I still don't really see any reason why there should be any changes except to boot times - Boot times seem to be the only thing most people have some agreement are too long.

As for Tiered divisions - we have had them when a large number of clans signed up. At the moment there is no point having a tiered system of clans in A, B and C as there are a sensible number of clans for three divisions.

If there are a large number of clans signing up next season you can just structure Div C into a C1, C2 (C3 etc) or do qualifying divisions like previous seasons did.

I think that to a certain extent people underestimate how much fun this competition can be in the lower levels. Even if you’re not an elite player, you can still have the feeling that you’ve helped your clan into achieving something. If the format would change into something more related to a cup format, imagine how non-elite players would feel. You play a few matches and then you’re knocked out and you’ve got nothong to do anymore for the rest of the time. I think it could be a scenario that clan league would die because of this change, because there are not enough lower league players to keep it going

Speaking for myself, I’ve been playing in C and B for all my warlight years, I’vs never not enjoyed a clan league, even when we got relegated. The excitement of a league system where you have the anticipation of achieving something is really cool. If all B and C clans woulx be pushes together in some sort of cup format, what’s even the point for them to participate? There is not much sense of achievement in becoming second in your group and then get knocked out in the quarter finals