I 100% support some sort of P/R format. I don't like the idea of a completely new clan forming and winning CL, like the Smileys did in CW. And I'm not sure how a cup format would discourage clans from merging together when Smileys was basically one huge merge of players from diferent clans.

I think you can't compare clan league and clan wars - clan wars is built into the website whereas clan league is community run.

It would be like saying AWP is dying and everyone favours quickmatch so we should completely change the format of AWP to remove half of the tournaments, make it a 2 hour boot and give people lollypops for participation.

If people in Div A aren't motivated then stop playing it - I bet you guys will all be motivated next season when there is a very real danger of coming lower than CORP in CL.

There is a conflict here:

a) The best Clans should be in the best Clan League Division; OR

b) All Clans should be given equal opportunity to progress from Division n to Division A.

Aristotle would go for Option a), but I suspect that the majority of the pyramid like that it is a pyramid and would go for Option b).

@Plat

There is clearly a lot of conflict in what different people want from the next Clan League.

Is there some process by which any changes are agreed or will this ultimately be your decision ?

Plat has no particular mandate to be in charge of Clan League. The current manager is Let's Fight. Plat has just kicked off a discussion on how we can improve the competition.

Octane hit the nail on the head though. 3/4 years minimum to even get a chance to win is what makes this competition so unattractive to the vast majority of the players. That and waiting two months for turn 3.

It's unfortunate that so many clans spent years to get their chance to win, but you can't get stuck on that.

I mean you can if all the clans that worked so hard to get to their positions don't want to take part in a changed system.

[redacted - miscount]. The number of clans fluctuate each year and it is rare that a clan with the skill of MB arrives as a new clan at the bottom of the pile. Why change an awesome system that has worked for over a decade because of one outlier clan?

*removed figures I quoted as they were slightly off the count.

Edited 5/30/2025 20:14:47

@dry-clean I mean yes you have a point, but give it one more year, some more mergers to 'stay competitive', more dropouts and zero new blood joining in, and the p/r system will collapse anyway. At least by discussing the possibility of making improvements, you get to be part of the changing process, rather than be subject to it.

There have been mergers almost every season of CL ever. There are also newer clans in clan league the past couple seasons. I don't know where this sentiment is coming from that the system is failing juwt cause there are a couple less clans than CL17 (There are more clans than other previous seasons also)

perhaps if there was a graph of number of clans and players for the last ten seasons or so what many feel is a downward participation trend could be confirmed (or not) for all.

(Ignore) CL10 had 50 clans participating. CL11 had 37 clans participating. This current CL18 has 22. What is this revisionism I'm seeing here? (Ignore)

Clan League Archive: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fAvnBERe-CbN8BqP11qnyVcTsV_Py1ApLZAZQ1EpQq4/edit?gid=2027519051#gid=2027519051

CL7: 35 participating clans
CL8: 34 participating clans
CL9: 32 participating clans
CL10: 31 participating clans
CL11: 23 participating clans
CL12: 28 participating clans
CL13: 27 participating clans
CL14: 28 participating clans
CL15: 26 participating clans
CL16: 37 participating clans
CL17: 33 participating clans
CL18: 22 participating clans

If some Clan League historian can explain to me the reason for the uptick between CL15 and CL16 that would be much appreciated.

Edited 5/30/2025 20:44:46

How long has CORP been trying to make it to Div A?(Or been in Div A, I don't follow CL)

Since Clan League 7 well over 10 years ago?

Ahh didn't see that there were qualifiers on the spreadsheet I was checking. But Qualifiers has very successfully dealt with the issues of not having too many divisions in the P/R :)

You're counting wrong Photonic - You've double counted every clan in qualifiers.

There were 30 in CL10
And 23 in CL11 for example

Aha, you're right my mistake. I looked at it again and was wondering what was up with that count of 50 from CL10.

CL10: 31 Clans
CL11: 23 Clans
CL12: 28 Clans
CL13: 27 Clans
CL14: 28 Clans
CL15: 26 Clans
CL16: 37 Clans
CL17: 33 Clans
CL18: 22 Clans

I think this is the correct count - Supports what I have said that numbers are basically the same as CL11. But also at that time there was no competition of other inter clan competitions such as CWs.

Less numbers than the last two seasons but again not dissimilar to CL15.

Plus having only 3 divisions is quite healthy for a P/R allows for clans to climb to A in 2-3 seasons.

Edited 5/30/2025 20:33:19

i think saying “cl is dying” is a bit doom and gloom.
some of the drop in clans is surely attributed to mergers of smaller clans that found it difficult to field a roster with 10 members (random number). this is why i feel it’s important to also look at total players.
it also needs to be remembered that total wz players peaked during covid. i used to play with a group of friends and i’m the only one still playing.
that said those numbers to show a steady decline in clans participating. does anyone know why for sure? has anyone been in a clan that’s no longer in cl or spoken with someone who is?
bodski has the right approach, identity specific issues and target them. rn there are a lot of theories, are there also facts to back them up.

for the record, i don’t play cl and have little interest in doing so. i’m a neutral voice trying to help negotiate through this.

`If some Clan League historian can explain to me the reason for the uptick between CL15 and CL16 that would be much appreciated. `

Let's Fight took over for CL16 and started actively mailing various clans to make them join. Same for CL17. I'd be careful when comparing CL16/17 numbers with the rest.

Similarly, CL11 also looks relatively anomalous. CL9 had 32 clans participating. And CL8 had 34 clans while CL7 had 35.

There is a very steady linear downward trend since CL7 excluding significant outliers in CL11, CL16, and CL17. CL18's clan participation count is basically exactly what one were to expect if one extrapolated out linearly from anywhere between CL12-15.

Another thing to note is that Clan League has not been without major reformats in the past. The first couple editions of Clan League were played in a full league format with all clans in one league and no promotion or relegation.

Edited 5/30/2025 21:00:31

Not sure what the problem is? Im not saying there isn't one, but I am genuinely confused..is it the length of the season being too long..or the structure needs a fresh overhaul to renew interest?

if its the length of time, then I think reducing the bank time makes the most sense. If its a refresh of the structure, then I think WZ community can look at adding another tournament/league with a new format. But some of the most prestigious sporting events like Wimbledon, Stanley Cup, and F1 have retained their essence and looked at making the existing structure more competitive. Legacy I think is important to preserve

Respectfully

Fisher