I have a very minor suggestion. since the rating is reseted (and basically rank also be reseted) in ladder, should the Rating Graph and Ranking Graph in ladder profile also be reseted?
now the graph is almost unreadable as a part of rating is around 1000-2000 and a part of it is around 100

The ladder updates have brought me much sadness :'( I cannot play seasonal anymore :( Bring back 3 day boot please <3

Not sure if intended or a bug, that's why i'm writing here. If i want to check recent games on a ladder, i can only check ALL games. This is not helpful, since ongoing games can't be reviewed and hold no interest to me. Just the finished games, as it used to be, would be perfect

Update 5.24.1: Small update
https://www.warzone.com/blog/index.php/2023/05/update-5-24-1-small-update/

Notable points:

– Classic: Converted 12 hours of banked time into fixed time. (so 1d13h + 1d12h now, still not enough)

– Classic: Fixed deleted accounts not being removed from active games. (does this also apply to tournaments? like those games just being instant byes?)

– Classic: Fixed ladder removing players on auto-commit.

– Classic: Fixed the boot percentage displayed on profile. It now properly takes into account games where a player was booted multiple times, or a game where they were booted into an AI, or a game where they were booted but their team won.

– Idle: Fixed 100% hospital upgrade time reduction. (apparently this blocked you from upgrading hospitals at all, now you can actually instantly upgrade them)

– Idle: Updated ladder rewards to encompass more players. (See https://www.warzone.com/Forum/692945?Offset=16 for the changes)

– Mods: Special units with a negative combat order will now fight before armies on that territory.

– Mods: Added WL.TickCount() for measuring the passage of time accurately. (not sure what this actually does, but im sure we can do something cool with it)

– Website: Fixed numpad “.” button. (I can finally type numbers again!)

Edited 5/31/2023 21:37:38

The data being shown is the relative amount of boots on the ladder. There's two problems with that:

1) The ladder has attracted many players with this update. New players are less likely to be booted from their games.

2) The ladder automatically removes players who boot, therefore reducing the relative amount of games ending by boot. A player is likelier to boot in a game given that they booted in the previous one.

That being said, 1d13h sounds way better than the 1d1h we have. I'd be interested to see how the bootrates evolve when (1) is getting less traction and (2) takes over as the main factor in reducing bootrates on the ladders.

I think somebody should play a Strat 1v1 game seriously and describe the whole thought process to showcase Fizzer, that you really cannot play seriously and take just 10 minutes.

Edited 5/31/2023 21:52:16

Most of the time I need 0-2 mins for making the orders. The deciding what the plan is what takes a while, especially for picks. Sometimes only need a few mins but it can take days for making picks because of the number of options and evaluating them. For regular turns it’s sometimes really clear what to do based on what happened the turn prior. The rest of the time is making predictions about their income, which bonuses they have, what orders they will do, etc. Some time is also spent on finding the move order.
It’s a mixture of the thought process and if you’re available to play that contribute to turns taking time to advance.

I think the post just shows that Fizzer feels strongly about this short boot being a good thing. So, I think no matter the community backlash, I doubt he'll do much more than he did already. In that case, I think I will just follow his advice and make my own games where 3 day boot is the base, because even playing the ladder on the old minimum settings (2 games at a time/3 day boot) was already at the limit of what I felt I could handle.

Can we at the very least have 2 games at a time back? And make the banked time recover over time? I get the idea of not wanting every turn to be 3 days (even though I still don't think it's a problem), it's usually just some turns as Dan said, e.g. picking or the clutch turns where you need to get an advantage and the moves to make are not that obvious. If those changes are made, perhaps I can give it another try, though I still have my reservations on whether I can handle it.

And I get the idea of making a game you want to play yourself. But currently the ladder is something that went from something that I can probably recommend playing (though it had its drawbacks) to something I wouldn't recommend playing at all, because it is just too stressful, and requires time and energy some people are comfortable investing, but many aren't. If it stays that way, let's call the ladders by what they have largely become - largely activity-based competitions akin to CW, where it is less about making the best moves and more about making the moves every day.

Actually, following on my thoughts above, why not let the player have only 1 game at a time? That way, it's a different sort of compromise - you commit to as few games as you want, but when you do, you play them within the boot time. It isn't ideal for those of us who would prefer the old boot settings, but perhaps if Fizzer really wants to significantly shorten the boot time, that's some sort of solution for a middle ground.

The minimum of 3 games at a time contributes massively to the dislike for the new ladder for me, personally. If it was just 1 game within these boot constraints then I would probably be willing to try it.

This proposal decreases the strain on the player while also keeping the current model where games play out faster. Maybe it's worth considering.

waffle on point like a laser.

The instant I feel like I must play, I'm done. Increasing minimum games to 3 and halving boot times was a bad move. I probably have more time to spare than anyone, and even I hate it.

The boot graph doesn’t have many data points. Only looks at past 18 weeks. Should be over a year minimum and say the number of games that ended as well as the number of which ended by boot. I’d say the data regarding booting is inconclusive in its current state. And because the new boot times have been around for only 2 weeks, relatively few players have booted. I’d expect more players to boot in the future. As others have mentioned being removed from the ladder after booting would clearly reduce the boot rate anyway, prevents same player from booting multiple times if they went inactive and forgot to leave the ladder.

And in team ladders if teammate boots, game typically ends in surrender.

The boot rate may appear lower but that’ll be because more players are participating in the 1v1 ladder and the ladders get better advertisements, because they’re included in the app and appear under multiplayer, instead of community.

Some players probably chose to not bother with ladders because of deciding 1 day or 1 day 12 hours isn’t enough time for ladders as a whole or for team ladders.

Edited 6/1/2023 07:37:29

The instant I feel like I must play, I'm done. Increasing minimum games to 3 and halving boot times was a bad move. I probably have more time to spare than anyone, and even I hate it.

Exactly how I feel as well. I could very well manage to keep up with the new ladder boot times, but I wouldn't enjoy it at all, so what's the point? I want to play without constant pressure to take my turn. If I want quick action, I go play a real-time game. If I play a multi-day game, 3 day boot hits the sweet spot of the game still advancing at a reasonable pace but me not having too much to do every day, unless I can and want to. I still think that if Fizzer wants fast games, then ideally he should just bring back the real-time ladder, instead of making the multi-day ones semi-real-time.

Some players probably chose to not bother with ladders because of deciding 1 day or 1 day 12 hours isn’t enough time for ladders as a whole or for team ladders.

Yep. I feel like the people for which getting booted would be a problem are likely to just not join rather than risk being booted (like myself).

Edited 6/1/2023 09:55:59

The boot time graph is very misleading. I got booted in a game and I have been removed from the ladder. If I wasn’t removed from the ladder as before, I would have been booted much more times. This boot time is unplayable for me and unfortunately I will never be able to play in the ladder games again.

And where is the poll for the boot time. Reading all the posts about it, it is very clear that the majority are against these new boot times and would like to go back to the old system of 3 days. Why not have the poll as you mentioned before to see what people are in favor of? If you are following the postings since the change you will reach the same conclusion that the big majority hates this new boot times.

The only reason I didn't boot from all ladder games is because I surrendered in all ladder games (Even ones at picks and that I was winning) and went on a WZ vacation due to the stress caused by playing it with the new boot times.

Im very much waiting for the poll that we were told about so that the community can make it clear they are against these changes and they can be reversed.

I don’t really see why some people are annoyed by longer boot times. If they can’t wait, they should play real-time games instead. Only exception is if their opponents deliberately keep playing while they know they’ve lost, instead of surrendering. Doesn’t matter if RT or MD for that because it’s intentional.
Someone’s probably made the following point before but 6-9 hours sleep + 8-12 hours work/school + 0-2 hours traveling time + ~1 hour making and eating breakfast and dinner + shower/bath + washing dishes then suddenly more than 70% of the day is gone. And even less time when you’re in more than just ladder games or spending time with family and friends or doing hobbies outside of Warzone.
The recent 12 hours more boot time for ladders might be ok for 1v1 ladders, but there’s still lots of pressure to take your turn which in turn can make players do suboptimal moves. It’s certainly not enough for team ladders when you consider commutation and timezone differences. Could do with at least 12 hours more boot time for 1v1 ladders and need at least 1 and a half more days boot time for team ladders.

*sarcasm*
Gah... whiners!

It's a game, not a thinking contest!

Shame on you to count, estimate, outdelay or outsmart your opponent...
Not to speak of those players with some extra tables or handmade tools to help them play.. almost like cheating... that makes me sick!
With your approach, how would the newcomers feel? It seems like you wanna ruin the ladders for them.

Let the almighty destiny, luck and randomness decide!


Is it fun to see the same tags sitting on top for weeks or months? NO!
Is it fun to see the same map again and again? NO!
Is it fun to feel pressed by time, opponents or lack of intelligence? NO!

Make Ladder Great Again!

Vote for "1v1 Lottery Ladder (100 days boot) (1-100 games at once)"!

*end*

Don't give Riskboay the idea.

I don’t really see why some people are annoyed by [X]. If they can’t [X], they should [Y] instead.

Basically, the same argumentation, which Fizzer presented for lowering boot times :D

Edited 6/7/2023 08:30:14