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Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 01:40:33

Parsifal
Level 62
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Hey,

The WZ idle forum is always full of great strategies, tips, ideas and opinions about how to play the game with more efficiency. But it is also hard to compare different strategies because we can't follow different runs of the same level in real time, and because of the many variables of the game itself.
Now because I also try to improve my game skills, I want to propose a more objective way to compare strategies and runs:
"The time it took to finish a level and what is the ascension number"

For example if one player is merc-oriented and the other relay on army camps and both of them finished Africa within 6 days, then both strategies are comparable.
If it took one 4 days and the other 12, then the second player can rethink his/hers approach.
Saying all that I want to put my own progress on the chopping block.
I have just finished my 1st ascension run and I screenshotted all the victory-stats

You can find the full information of the maps, my artifacts and my AP here:
https://justpaste.it/3mie2

I am aware that 5.14 update changed some features of the game, but still not enough to change completely all the strategies.

To make this discussion effective I'd like to ask the following:
please avoid commenting if:
- You bought many legendary artifacts and AP using coins or real world money. I mean, congratulations, but that is not something I or most of the players can imply in future runs
- Your times for finishing maps during the 1st ascension are slower than mine.
Of course, because we all have to sleep from time to time, a difference of +-10 hours is in my opinion acceptable.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 01:40:55

Parsifal
Level 62
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As a separate short list, here are the times for all the levels

01 Tutorial – 1 min
02 Huruey's Castle – 2h23m
03 Floating Rocks – 46m
04 War of the Worlds – 5h31m
05 Ursa-Luna – 7h
06 Final Earth –7h
07 Drakemor's World – 14h
08 Peloponnesian War – 7h
09 K-PX – 15h
10 The Siege of Feldmere – 16h
11 Sengoku – 17h
12 Copper Creek – 1d6h
13 Geopolitics – 1d8h
14 Breaking Green – 13h
15 Far Land – 1d14
16 Reconquest – 1d23h
17 Fort Harbor – 1d13h
18 Europe 1066 AD – 2d22h
19 Roads of Silk and Iron – 3d21h
20 Old Town – 2d12h
21 Orbis – 3d7h
22 Scandinavia – 2d15h
23 Asia – 3d20
24 Africa – 4d
25 Rise and Fall of RE – 3d20h
26 Australia – 4d17h
27 Netherlands – 4d17h
28 China – 6d3h
29 Afro-Eurasia – 7d7h
30 Triskelion – 7d9h
31 United States – 7d20h
32 Europe Huge – 7d19h

05+ Hardened Ursa-Luna – 17h
08+ Hardened Peloponnesian War – 16h
10+ Hardened Siege of Feldmere – 1d18h
12+ Hardened Copper Creek – 2d4h
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 01:42:28


Shin
Level 58
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I think you duplicated Hardened Siege instead of adding hardened Copper Creek in the map statistics.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 01:51:32

Parsifal
Level 62
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yep. changed that. tx
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 02:03:09


Shin
Level 58
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Also, when should i milk markets really hard?
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 05:52:51

functor
Level 56
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I ascended for the first time today, and it took me about 3 months to finish all regular levels.

Although I bought +30% AP using coins starting from Scandinavia, hence violating your rule of commenting, I think it is forgivable because I am comparing my pre-ascension time with your first ascension time, and I do not have +15% AP clan reward.

# Learning how to play
09 K-PX (rev 16)                                 : 1 day 5 hours
10 The Siege of Feldmere (rev 16)                : 2 days 9 hours
11 Sengoku - Rise of Oda Nobunaga (rev 16)       : 3 days 15 hours
12 Copper Creek Castle (rev 16)                  : 3 days 13 hours
13 Geopolitics (rev 16)                          : 2 days 20 hours
14 Breaking Green (rev 16)                       : 3 days 22 hours
15 Far Land (rev 16)                             : 2 days 22 hours
16 Reconquest 1065 (rev 16)                      : 5 days
17 Fort Harbor (rev 16)                          : 4 days 4 hours
18 Europe 1066 AD (rev 16)                       : 4 days 21 hours
19 AD 1045 - Roads of Silk and Iron (rev 16)     : 4 days 13 hours
20 Old Town (rev 16)                             : 4 days 2 hours
21 Orbis Veteribus Notus (rev 16)                : 4 days 9 hours

# Switching to merc-based strategy
22 Scandinavia and the Nordic Countries (rev 16) : 2 days 21 hours
23 Asia - Population Density (rev 16)            : 3 days 5 hours
24 Africa (rev 16)                               : 2 days 5 hours
25 Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (rev 16)    : 2 days
26 Australia (rev 16)                            : 2 days 1 hour
27 Netherlands (rev 16)                          : 4 days 14 hours (ML 27 + 28)
28 China (rev 16)                                : 4 days 14 hours (ML 27 + 28)

# Switching to market-based strategy
29 Afro-Eurasia Gargantuan (rev 17)              : 5 days (ML 29 + 30 + 31 + 32)
30 Triskelion (rev 17)                           : 5 days (ML 29 + 30 + 31 + 32)
31 United States (rev 17)                        : 5 days (ML 29 + 30 + 31 + 32)
32 Europe Huge (rev 17)                          : 5 days (ML 29 + 30 + 31 + 32)


I believe that with a more aggressive 5.14 market-based strategy, all pre-ascension time above could be halved, or even quartered for determined players.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 05:53:32


John Smith
Level 55
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HOLY
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 06:18:30


krinid 
Level 60
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These are your 1st playthrough times? Pre-ascension? Seems unreal!

If you can accomplish this, you need to share your Advancements & playstyle, b/c obviously we're all missing something.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 06:44:56

functor
Level 56
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@krinid

What you asked could be found in other threads.

My key tool:
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/567678-estimate-remaining-time-level

Level progression choice (first suggested by John Smith, as far as I know):
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/566675-getting-coins-wzi

My advancements (I have +90% additional mercs when I ML 29+30+31+32):
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/566011-guide-advancements?offset=2

My artifact choice:
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/567735-objective-effects-artifacts

My 5.14 strategy:
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/572780-514-marketbased-strategy
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 06:48:56

Parsifal
Level 62
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@functor

that is more than impressive!!
I think you should write a guide of your own.
With that times I obviously play the game wrong.....

Edited 9/1/2021 07:42:57
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 07:42:51

Xeno
Level 28
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I never kept track of my times so I only include the ones included in level statistics so all are >5.14. I never used coins to buy powers or artifacts. I rarely if ever use the free map powers except on the occasional tech run since they can be a bit longer but always use the free daily power if available.


I started Australia earlier today hence unascended. Here are my times by win time but when session age differs from win time I included it but they all are due to getting a free daily TW.

Far Land => Fastest win by time: 18 hours
Reconquest 1065 => Fastest win by time: 1 day 2 hours
Fort Harbor => Fastest win by time: 14 hours
Europe 1066 AD => Fastest win by time: 18 hours => Fastest win by session age: 19 hours
AD 1045: Roads of Silk and Iron => Fastest win by time: 13 hours
Old Town => Fastest win by time: 6 hours => Fastest win by session age: 7 hours
Orbis Veteribus Notus => Fastest win by time: 18 hours
Scandinavia and the Nordic Countries => Fastest win by time: 11 hours
Asia: Population Density => Fastest win by time: 8 hours
Africa => Fastest win by time: 13 hours => Fastest win by session age: 14 hours
Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire => Fastest win by time: 10 hours

Due to stating levels right before going to sleep or RL commitments some times are way longer than expected. If I used all the map powers they could have been faster. I maxed "Increased AP" and for all except Roman empire I had 45% additional mercs therefore if I was not "sabotaging" myself on purpose all of these could be faster.

One caveat is that I do each stage 3 times so arguably I have a "lot" of AP but tbh I have more than half of my AP spent on useless stuff like auto-conquer/auto-upgrade AC/increased AP. The AP gain is backloaded so the big stages are still not done.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 08:23:28

Parsifal
Level 62
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@Xeno

I must say it starts to be really intriguing.
Africa in pre-ascension done within 13 hours??
with only 45% mercs?

Do you have a screenshot to share?
And could you elaborate a little bit more on the strategy you are using?
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 08:29:06


Shin
Level 58
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I think that when he rebeats the level, he has every map info he needs and tries to get markets and recipes early, milk it hard, and buy a lot of hospital upgrades and mercs. He said he does not use powers and he sometimes provide ppl with armies. That is based on my understanding.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 08:30:34


riskboy88 
Level 62
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i honestly feel insulted that everyone thinks john's idea is a joke. I was being real serious there, Resetting to get +25% AP is a good idea.

Even better now that you can ML the hardened levels. after that you can just keep the +25% AP advancement, it is good by the time you have that amount of AP.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 08:41:41

Xeno
Level 28
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I'm capped on all powers so this shows that I did not grab any power at all in Africa. On rome I lost my clan gift due to opening my phone to watch an AD so I rage used a FC to make it up but the FC was 40% of the armies I lost in the gift.

https://i.imgur.com/exzVPUy.png
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 09:08:17

Parsifal
Level 62
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@riskboy88

don't feel insulted, but explain to me how many coins are you going to need if you wish to reset your AP after every map?
How often do you want to use this strategy?
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 11:10:47


riskboy88 
Level 62
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Of course not after every map. After the FINAL MAPS, WHILE MULTILEVELING, JUST ONCE.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 12:48:50

Parsifal
Level 62
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resetting your AP once is not a strategy. and it doesn't explain to me how it is possible to finish Africa in 10 hours in a pre-ascension run
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 16:11:31


krinid 
Level 60
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Africa 10h is pretty fast ... 3rd playthrough Africa for me was 1d2h (a casual run with room for improvement of course, not rushing, likely left AQ on overnight, etc).

That said, with Xeno's triple level play style, his results are essentially post 1st Ascension results. But still super fast imho. Xeno, let us know your secrets!

And share your data, jeepers!
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 20:18:40

Dr_Rob
Level 58
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Am I missing something fundamental?

Afro-Eurasia Gargantuan took me just over two weeks, Triskelion 18 days (very fast at the end due to the upgrade bug and 800% hospital boost).

I am currently on the United States map (14d + 8h) 1,312 territories taken, 1,754 remaining. First hospital at L5, next 6 at L3 (they are getting expensive now...on the edge of negative return vs. mercs?). Ores up to Titanium I can produce more than a single smelter can handle (many smelters for everything up to Al). Producing 187K armies per second (20% videos seem to have disappeared this afternoon so I am slower than normal).

Order of capture (as possible using Joint Strike as much as possible): I focus on production vs. empty territories
Hospitals (upgrade immediately)...tend to max out most by about 2/3 of level completion, then last few as they are taken
Army Camps (upgrade quickly) ... seem inconsequential near the end of the game where mercs rule for me
Mines (upgrade quickly to L4 for most, many to 7 or 8 to keep smelters busy)
Smelters and Crafters
Caches
Empty territories (take them when bonuses matter, seems not the case so much on United States map, but have a lot so far anyway...close to free with hospitals saving armies.

I have played all the levels (close to in order, several of the early ones 2-3x to get more AP and artifact digs), just one hardened level so far. Have not ascended, on United States now...ascend after 1 more level.

Advancements:
210% Army Camp Production
15% Cooper
100% Cache Money (max)
25% Joint Strike (max)
25% Discounted Mines (max)
50% Smelter Speed (max)
57.5% Additional Mercs (have not run out, but the upgrade just happened)
480 Idle time

15% Auto Conquer
100% Increased Cache (max)
10% Army Camp discount
30% Merc discount

Artifacts
Regularly used:
Epic Army Camp Boost
Epic Territory Camp Boost or Rare Bonus Money Boost (depending upon which yields more at the time)

Tend to rotate in and out depending upon needs to keep smelters and crafters busy
Rare Mine Boost
Rare Speedy Crafters
Rare Speed Smelters

Drag in and out prior to actions:
Rare Cache Boost
Rare Resource Cache Boost
Rare Money Cache Boost
Rare Army Cache Boost
Rare Mine Discount
Rare Mercenary Discount
Rare Draft Boost
Rare Tech Discount
Uncommon Hospital Discount
Rare Item Values
Rare Army Camp Discount
Rare Hospital Boost
Rare Alloy Values
Uncommon Ore Values
Rare Supercharge Army Camp (only when I have too much $ and not enough mercs to finish quickly)

Uncommon Triple Strike (2 of them, will upgrade or sacrifice)
Several others waiting to sacrifice when I get 4+ of a type

I seem to have no problems quickly building alloys and items to 'buy' all of the Techs on the Tech Tree.

I try to keep a dig happening at all times, have more dig sites than I can use during a level so some go unused, but digs are digs...try to start a high value one with a long time just before I complete a level.

This is the first level where I "mined markets." Three so far where I bought low and sold high to get more $$ for upgrades.

I tend to wait to begin purchasing mercs until after I have that column of the Tech Tree completed (save $), but will buy some inexpensive ones to gain productive assets when I will be away for a time (get a mine or army camp before I leave for 10 hours of work)

Am I doing something fundamentally 'wrong' where it takes me 3x as long to complete levels as others?

I also use the app to view adds for 20% more Armies (pretty good about hitting it every 4 to 6 hours)...just became available again on iOS and now it is not giving me the pop-up to watch and get 20%.

Thank you in advance for your advice and wisdom.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 20:24:25


krinid 
Level 60
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@Dr_Rob
It's not you doing something wrong, it's functor & Xeno apparently doing something extremely right. So far as I am aware, they are the only 2 with these exceptional clear times, and the rest of us are in the Slow Boat together.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 20:27:39

Dr_Rob
Level 58
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Thank you @krinid

That gives me some peace of mind :)
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/1/2021 20:29:42


John Smith
Level 55
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It seems the ML combo was miscommunicated somehow

It's just for individuals who didn't get the AP advancement yet where they use ML's in combination on some high AP maps and then they reset before clearing all maps at the same time, in which case they now keep their new advancement setup with a +25% AP.

The idea is that the 150 coins (You only do this once in your account life unless you are a fat whale $$$, I don't know why people are saying multiple times) spent will generate you a lot of AP that works similarly to how you would have spent on 50 coins for +30% AP on levels anyway.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 06:24:44

Olja 
Level 63
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My times for 2nd and 3rd ascension are very similar to the ones Parsifal posted, on some levels a bit faster, on others a bit slower, but no major differences overall.
(I used coins for +30% AP on the top levels)

So I am also curious how Africa < 1d is possible pre-ascension (my times were 2d16h and 4d19h on 2nd/3rd ascension, haven't tracked it thereafter).

I can see how < 1d is possible with markets in rev. 17 but this should also require having the respective advancements (such as higher sell prices, mercs etc.) which someone pre-ascension probably won't have yet.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 07:01:11

Parsifal
Level 62
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@functor @Xeno

I must say that the times you presented don't make any sense.
Taking your invested AP and overall progress into consideration shouldn't give such results.

Can you prove that your runs are genuine, that you weren't using any bots/external programs/auto-clickers or just simply purchasing a ton of powers for real world money?

Edited 9/2/2021 07:29:14
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 07:02:56


Shin
Level 58
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me? i do not do the levels that fast
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 07:19:27


John Smith
Level 55
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Think Parsifal meant Xeno
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 07:29:26

Parsifal
Level 62
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Sorry Shin, my bad
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 07:32:12

functor
Level 56
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@Olja

When I did Africa (rev 16) in 2 days, I had +60% additional mercs. I could have finished Africa (rev 17) in 1 day at that time if I had +70% additional mercs, and I believe that with a more optimized run, 13h Africa (rev 17) with +70% additional mercs should be possible. I am also curious how that could be done with only +45% additional mercs.

@Parsifal

I have already posted my strategy here.
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/572936-idle-strategy-discussion?offset=8
If you have any questions on my strategy, then I would like to explain more.

I did wrote an auto-clicker to join battle every 30 mins. Below is the quote from wiki on rules of automation.
> Do not attempt to modify the game data, modify your system clock, or automate the game in any fashion except as provided within the game's normal UI.
The auto-clicker only operates game's UI, hence it is allowed.

I do not see what kind of evidences you expect me to provide, especially considering that the evidences would come from me, someone you do not trust.
Idle Strategy Discussion: 9/2/2021 07:36:59


riskboy88 
Level 62
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functor is fast
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