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Why not full payout: 6/9/2020 22:42:54

11B10
Level 49
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Why in coin games does warzone take a cut...seems kind of cheesy to me
Why not full payout: 6/9/2020 23:48:57


natto
Level 58
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gotta make that bread somehow
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 01:42:29


{TLA} LND 
Level 57
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If Fizzer didn't take some of the coins back, the number of coins in the system would get to the point where people wouldn't really need to buy coins anymore, they could just win them off games and the number would more or less stay the same, just circulating between players. If Fizzer takes a cut, eventually someone has to buy coins, because otherwise the coins would eventually run out. So yeah, it's to make bread. ;)

Actually, you can apply chemical equilibrium laws to this situation:
Imagine this is a series of chemical reactions:
let P = player 1
G = player 2
F = Fizzer
$ = irl money
C = warzone coins
--> = irreversible reaction
<=> = reversible reaction
therefore, assuming Fizzer doesn't take the 10% fee for coin games:
Reaction 1: $P + $G + C2F --> $F + CP + CG
Reaction 2: C2P + C2G <=> CP + C3G

Now, when you put the chemicals in the test tube (Warzone), there are initially no coins in the hands of the players, or money in the hands of Fizzer. So Reaction 2 cannot proceed, until Reaction 1 has started. So Fizzer starts raking it in. However, now that Reaction 1 has started, so can Reaction 2 - the coins start being circulated among the players. Eventually, there will be enough coins in the system that Reaction 2 can proceed both forwards and backwards quite happily, without the need for Reaction 1 to occur. So Fizzer isn't making much money anymore (asides from the occasional person).

How can Fizzer create more revenue...? Perhaps by changing Reaction 2 as follows (where P is creating the game):
Reaction 2a: C5P + C5G + F --> C3P + C6G + CF

By also reacting with C to form CF, Fizzer competes with G and removes C from the system. Therefore, Reaction 2a can no longer go on back and forth forever, because CF does not degrade back to F, i.e. the system will run itself out.
Reaction 2b: C3P + C6G + CF --> CP + C7G + C2F

Reaction 2 can now no longer proceed because P cannot afford the game creation/entry fee. Even if G starts creating the games and losing them, because (Cx)F keeps removing C from the system, eventually P and G will no longer be able to play coin games... unless they use their $ to get new C as per Reaction 1. Hey presto, Fizzer is now making $ again. Genius, Fizzer!

At the request of MathWolf and krinid, the following reactions have been added:
let R = rafflebot
W = coinwheel
A = ad
L = player on coin leaderboard
M = premium features (memberships, clans, premium colours, etc.)
Therefore rafflebot reactions:
Reaction 3: CF + R --> F + CR
Reaction 4: CR + P --> R + CP

Coinwheel:
Reaction 5: CF + W --> F + CW
Reaction 6: CW + $A + P + F --> W + A + CP + $F

Coin Leaderboard:
Reaction 7: L + CF --> CL + F

Premium features:
Reaction 8: CP + MF --> MP + CF
Reaction 8a: $P + MF --> MP + $F

In total, Reactions 2ab & 8 must proceed at such a rate as to have their ouput of CF outweigh the input of CF of Reactions 1, 3(4), 5(6) & 7. When this occurs, Reaction 1 must proceed in order to maintain sufficient supply of CP, therefore (also taking Reactions 6 and 8a into account) Fizzer makes money!
(I would have also included players retiring with coins, but that's kind of hard to make into a chemical equation. :( )

There you have it - chemical equilibrium laws applied to economics. ;) Not perfect, I know, and probably confused more people than it helped, but I'm a nerd, and it was fun to come up with. ;)

Edited 6/11/2020 01:59:50
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 01:57:48

{ANB} BaZooka!
Level 34
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Brain fart
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 10:06:45


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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I absolutely loved that explanation LND!

Would it be possible to extend it by also including the free coins (raffles, coin leaderboard) and semi-free coins (coin wheel) that Fizzer gives out? In essence, the raffles just inject extra coins in the system, while the coin wheel is a simple coins - Fizzer money exchange.
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 12:12:29


krinid 
Level 59
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Great analysis LND.

But as Math Wolf pointed out, need to account for coin wheel + raffles. (;

And also the occasional user who hordes coins, never spends them, then becomes inactive. Effectively these coins get "tossed into the wishing well" (disappear).

Any other use cases for coin consumption or acquisition?
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 14:47:59


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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Now that's a proper explanation.
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 16:17:38

Baer 
Level 65
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I asked Fizzer this in one of our games. He said because of the coins that enter the system through coin wheel and raffles, there needs to be a balancing mechanism So there aren’t too many coins
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 16:19:26


Rick Sanchez
Level 57
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lnd flexing chemistry skills in warzone
Why not full payout: 6/10/2020 19:39:27


Mister Glass
Level 61
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Amusing as lnd's explanation is, the principle behind Fizzer's cut is that "the house always wins." Go to any sports book in the world and add up the odds. The expected payout by the house is always lower than the expected pay in by the better.

Vegas operates on a -110 vig. That is on a standard bet with 50-50 odds you must bet $110 to win $100. Say 1000 $110 bets are made with 50% of them on one side, and 50% on the other. Regardless of who wins, the house will pay out $105,000 and receive $110,000.

Fizzer lives by making money off this game. He makes money in one of two ways: 1) advertising revenue, 2) people buying things from the game (membership, colors, coins). For both he relies on coins, because you can buy everything in the game through coins, and the coin wheel exchanges a small number of coins for an advertisement. The only way for this game to be a sustainable business model is if when coin games are played Fizzer takes a percentage.

Edited 6/10/2020 19:42:55
Why not full payout: 6/11/2020 02:01:12


{TLA} LND 
Level 57
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I have updated my post with Math Wolf and krinid's suggestions
Why not full payout: 6/11/2020 19:14:19

11B10
Level 49
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seems to me that all the coins would eventually end up with the better players if the there was no cut taken by the house..either way the less skilled players like myself get screwed faster,,,,basically even if you win 50% of your games you lose 20% of your coins....so only way to even break even is to win 70% of your games....seems screwed to me to even play coin games.............as am new how else can you acquire coins? 20% cut off of every match is extremely excessive...one could call it greedy..even vegas works off 2-3% overall win and counts on volume,,at warzones present 20% they can keep their bloody wagering games lol....is always a fools bet

Edited 6/11/2020 19:21:42
Why not full payout: 6/11/2020 19:36:55


TBest 
Level 60
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"seems to me that all the coins would eventually end up with the better players"

Well, yes. But you are forgetting 1 thing, what the better players do with those coins. Most of them create free to join tournaments or even win a membership tournaments for non-members or just other such stuff (solve my SP level first and get 100 coins etc.) . So they circle back from top players too.

Anyways, there is no point nor need to play coin games if you don't want to. They are there as an extra thing for the players that enjoy that kinda thing.
Why not full payout: 6/11/2020 19:37:03


Kenghis Ghan 
Level 56
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The coin leaderboard repays the tax to those at the top (the ones most affected by the tax), and the raffles and coin wheel introduces coins to the bottom.
Why not full payout: 6/11/2020 20:58:57

Mark-Dad-Of-Two
Level 41
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ROFL loved the explanation

If you think fizzer has hard monitised warzone then you are on a different planet from me and a lot of games in the play store
The adverts are not even that intrusive..
Go and give games like Words With Friends a spin to get yourself an edukation on the horrors
Why not full payout: 6/12/2020 00:10:31

11B10
Level 49
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love the game but maybe am missing something..where are the raffles..what is the money wheel? us average to poor players need help =b
Why not full payout: 6/12/2020 02:15:07


Skaarfungandr the Mighty
Level 58
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The coin wheel pops up on the Warzone app, after you win a game each day (iirc). I believe it can even appear after opening a game won on a prior day. You won't earn coins very fast, but you won't miss much either. Levelling to 50ish isn't very hard if you can win a decent percentage of games.

Raffles and the like are generally organized by players through lottery games or tournaments, afaik
Why not full payout: 6/12/2020 04:36:50


{TLA} LND 
Level 57
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The coinwheel is available once every 20hrs, provided you win a game in that 20hrs.

The raffles are in the global chat room every hour or so.
- downvoted post by 11B10
Why not full payout: 6/13/2020 00:43:02


Yaxvi
Level 61
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I'm pleasantly surprised at the level of detail on these answers.
Why not full payout: 6/13/2020 01:08:15


{TLA} LND 
Level 57
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Not foolish to play, 11B10. Just foolish to play anyone and everyone unless you can win >70% of the time. Before that point, you pick your matches.
I've got a crappy 50-something 1v1 winrate, but I don't often lose coins, because I only play against people I'm at least 80% sure I can beat. 😉

Edited 6/13/2020 01:10:13
Why not full payout: 6/13/2020 02:13:03


Mister Glass
Level 61
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Where did you get 70%? 5 coin small earth games I win 4 for winning lose 5 for losing. In order to break even I need to win 5/9, which is 55.5555555555...%. To make a profit I only need to win 56%.

As for people saying 20% is greedy, Fizzer hands out a lot of coins for free.
Why not full payout: 6/13/2020 06:58:27

11B10
Level 49
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keep hearing that..does he do it on this site? If so where?
Why not full payout: 6/13/2020 08:23:22


{TLA} LND 
Level 57
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Oh my goodness. 11B10, as plenty of us have said, anyone can get free coins from the coinwheel on the app, or by entering raffles that appear every hour or so in the global chat.
Why not full payout: 6/13/2020 13:12:35


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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Reading is hard, hmmkay?
Why not full payout: 6/14/2020 01:02:15

11B10
Level 49
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well will not have access to the app and how do i navigate to global chat dont see it?
Why not full payout: 6/14/2020 01:02:51


Kenghis Ghan 
Level 56
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Why not full payout: 6/14/2020 01:04:29


JK_3
Level 60
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