First of all, i want to remind everybody, that we were split on this proposal. There wasn't a consensus, so we're interested in all opinions on that matter and we got the permission to post it here to see how it's taken by the community.

Now to a few points:

1. As stated above, the biggest problem was always, that nobody was able to come up with a suitable definition. Without that definition, it's not possible to forbid siblings clans to compete. Unless there should be someone to rule on it in each case. I guess that's not a suitable option, because nobody can know every connection certain clans have.

2. The problems i mentioned above, where all problems that were brought up and discussed in the past. Since there is no definition, that would allow to even think about forbidding them, it might be worth a try to go in the other direction and give every clan a chance to field multiple teams, since some could say, that sibling clans are basically the same. So it might be worth a try to equal the playing field that way.

3. As stated in the cons, extra rules would be needed to make sure, that every clan has the same rights. Players movement was brought up. Under the current rule player movement between clans is forbidden, so if you create this rule, it would be allowed for clans to move their players between the teams as much as they want to. They just have to think about it before the season, as roster / lineups still need to be submitted. There is a midseason registration window, but obviously it would be very risky to submit no backup options for the 1st team, who wouldn't be able to compete for the 2nd team. But back to the problem. Should it even be allowed? If it should be allowed, it would make sense to apply the same rule to sibling clans. And again we got a problem, who will define sibling clans? Well in this case, now sibling clans could be allowed to register themselves as such and get the same treatment as every other 2nd, 3rd etc. team for these kind of things. So as you see, now everybody could have the same chance.

4. On that basis, there could also be a chance to come up with additional rules to limit some things that got mentioned before. To keep it simple, it could be possible to find solutions, for the 3 problems that already were topics of past discussions in the community. So if there would now be a feeling, that you need to restrict certain areas, you might be able to come up with explicit rules to do so.

In the end, who knows if it will work out. That's why we ask for all your opinions. As mentioned, it would be a try and nothing final, because it would be easy to always go back to the current rule set, if it shouldn't work out. It's an idea. A potential solution for a controversial topic that creates discussions and sometimes even heated discussion, basically since i can remember playing in CL. If the majority thinks it's not a suitable idea, than it's fine. But it's at least something worth mentioning and worth discussing. A try and a potential solution, which is better than staying silent and doing nothing.

Edited 5/13/2020 16:45:08

Berens post sums everything up quite nicely. Fizzer should close the thread so it won't get polluted by people who have no clue

Beren's post sum up my own views extremely well.

100% agree with Beren's post.

Another issue is clan/team stability. The promotion relegation system also breaks down when teams form and dissolve on a somewhat regular basis. If it is easy for a clan X to create a B team for people who would otherwise not play in their A team, they might do so, and if X is a strong clan, their B players might do well in the lowest level and promote. If the next season or the season after that X decide that they actually don't have the resources to field two teams, they'll fold the B team and bring their players back to the A team. I'm sure it would be especially galling for a clan to be denied promotion in Season 13 by a B team, watch that team play Season 14 and then drop out.

I have to admit, that point kinda makes sense. At least for M'Hunters we would have to decide on a season per season basis whether we could put a B team.

As for M'Hunters how far we would use the B team option would depend very much on the exact wording. The problem is that M'Hunters has 3 types of skilled players, let's call them ASkill, BSkill and CSkill. The ASkill players play in the league, the BSkill players are backups and the CSkill players don't play at all. When fielding a B team we might run into the problem that we don't want to use the BSkill players there in order to not weaken our A team. So we might run into the bizarre problem that if we decide the slots for the B team we would have to value a high boot and a bad gaming attitude as the primary positive criteria in order to get a slot.


However if we could move players between our A and B team freely then we would love to field a competitive B team.

Agreed with Beren's post 100%! Sums up everything!

Also +1 to locking down the thread so it won't get out of control....

EDIT: I will review this more in depth later, and will most likely post again...

Edited 5/13/2020 17:46:09

Note that all rules changes will be applied by the Clan League Panel and not the Ethics Committee. The main point of this is for opinions, particularly of the clans themselves. There is no point of even discussing this if only 10% of clans want it.

As far as rules regarding multiple teams those would be implemented if the decision was made, and the rules would not be lax



Furthermore, the rules on claiming a spot will stay, as if you look with the previous cases (ignoring this one), the rule has done good for many clans who have needed it, and the one time it wasn't used (Lynx-101st) it was overwhelmingly considered a bad decision, and the health of the league suffered as a result.

-Cowboy

I'll be sending out mails to clan leaders today or tomorrow to get the votes in.

Edited 5/14/2020 06:43:59

100% agree with Beren's post.

there were 2 questions the panel had to answer!
1/ does master have the right to take the place of apps in cl
2/ should we give priority to clans or players

apartment, the 2nd question has been put on the side!
why not ask for the opinion of all the clans instead of imposing it
are you afraid of the result?
you say that in the past, this rule has shown that it is a good rule !! I'm sorry, but I don't agree !!
only half of the people were happy
but as you were among those who were happy, you decide it was good and does not want to give clans the opportunity to express themselves on this subject
there is no more deaf than one who does not want to hear

Edited 5/13/2020 20:30:20

"Furthermore, the rules on claiming a spot will stay, as if you look with the previous cases (ignoring this one), the rule has done good for many clans who have needed it, and the one time it wasn't used (Lynx-101st) it was overwhelmingly considered a bad decision, and the health of the league suffered as a result."

There is no need for a vote on this, the panel was not split on this issue, and thus does not need any further opinions on the matter. It has been shown time after time that the right decision is to let the slot itself belong to the players that played.

it s only your opinion
I request the intervention of audit panel

Edited 5/13/2020 20:50:26

Ok, it's everyone's opinion that runs the league, but sure.

Zev, If you don't like the way clan league is run, get on a panel and work to change it.

"I request the intervention of audit panel"

The audit panel can only rule on something regarding foul play on the decision of panel members.
Please do not bother Math Wolf just because you didn't get your way.

for me there was a fault because the panel did not deal with the question (2 months waiting)

They did though, that's why the question above was asked.

it s only your opinion
I request the intervention of audit panel

The Audit Panel is currently unavailable. Please leave a message after the paranoia-voicemail and press '13' after you're done.

Edit: After actually reading more than the first two posts, I retract my statement, because it's already been explained by Checkmqte and Beren; that is, this probably causes more problems than it solves.

Reserve CL would be kind of cool, though I get that it would be a lot of effort for (perhaps) not much interest.

Edited 5/14/2020 01:11:33

https://www.warzone.com/Forum/415305-straw-poll-masterapprentice-merger?Offset=0

we already know some peoples opinion on this

not Many people were against it

Myself was at first was against it because when i thought master replacing apprentince in the cl i thought of Wimbledon f.c. situation but it isnt a fair comparision as apprentince weren't against it. if they were this story would be alot more chaotic.

so no as long as apprentince's Accomplisments arent given to masters i dont see a problem with masters/apprentince situation

as for masters good luck for the next cl in division b guys

Edited 5/14/2020 08:02:39