"they sterilized immigrants as a condition of their immigrating to that country."

that alone makes israel a bad country to immigrate too

you want USA that way you ******* *******.

Edited 5/7/2020 19:02:54

a country should never deny anyone immigration

the only condition you should deny an immigration is if they are known rapist/serial killers/terrorist

they flee for a better life for themself and their kids sterilising them would rob people to not being able to have kids

i dont know about you but i want kids for myself one day why rob immigrants ability to have kids

that is only someone who believes they are more important than immigrants would say.

Edited 5/7/2020 19:07:33

a country should never deny anyone immigration

why?

Edited 5/7/2020 21:16:59

a country should never deny anyone immigration

Countries have the right to decide who comes in and how many come in. They don't owe foreigners a "better life". In spite of what Israel does, the countries around it are a lot worse...

did you guys ever read the rest of the post before writing it i already told the reason

they flee for a better life for themself and their kids

thats why i believe immigiration shouldnt be denied

for myself of course because this is my opinion

"Countries have the right to decide who comes in and how many come in. They don't owe foreigners a "better life". In spite of what Israel does, the countries around it are a lot worse..."


Dude I Dont Know What You Intended With This But For Me The Only Thing Worse Than Israel Did Would Be Is To Seperate Families Then Raping The Children And Then Sold Everyone in it Indivisually As Slaves

""They"We don't owe foreigners a "better life"." No They Only Immigrate To Your Nation They Will Build Their Life Themselves. If They Cant Thats A Problem. I Can Understand some Countries Being against Immigrants But I Cant say I Can Support That Decision

Edited 5/8/2020 11:03:43

Where are Saudi Arabia's Jews? Where are any other Middle Eastern country's Jews? They were driven out... meanwhile, there are plenty of Arabs in Israel and they're even allowed in parliament. They'd all leave Israel if they were so horribly treated. https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/75

If They Cant Thats A Problem.

That's precisely my point. We currently have "refugees" crossing the border from the US to Quebec and Ontario (primarily). The US is not a war zone (pun not intended), there's no reason why refugees should be coming from there. During the refugee crisis in Europe, they wanted to go to Germany and Sweden because they paid the largest welfare benefits. If they were real refugees, they'd be happy with settling in any country. Poland has accepted many refugees from Ukraine, yet that's never talked about on the media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_fz9EW5Iw

i dont know what to say to this information so i wont answer this


this info confused me on a personal level

Edited 5/9/2020 22:36:40

I'm very sad

it's the year for 3rd Parties

yea you do seem confused.

If a country can't decide who comes in its borders then it's not a real country.

Of course we can decide who comes in. Nobody is saying we can't. I'm just saying that it would be preferable to essentially have unrestricted immigration because that has been proven to be economically, socially, and politically the best path forward for freedom.

"the best path forward for freedom"

such meaningless and deceptive terminology

https://www.islamicontario.ca/Islamic-Party-of-Ontario-Principles-and-Policy_324.html

Look at all this freedom!

WTF is this

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/thumb/msid-70071989,width-1200,height-900,resizemode-4/.jpg

wasn't that the entire point of america? Where Everyone is free? how can you call yourself Land Of The Free and say stuff like" If anyone can just walk across the border, sign a piece of paper and become an "American" then being an "American" means nothing and has no value." Don't You Think You Are kinda Admitting This isnt the land of the free or the american dream was a lie all along because you make it sound like it

Time to own some racists.

Mass immigration has been a cultural and economic disaster for the American middle class. If anyone can just walk across the border, sign a piece of paper and become an "American" then being an "American" means nothing and has no value.

Like your ancestors did in Tennessee when they first settled it in the late 1700s? Or maybe you're of Irish or Eastern European descent, and stole the jobs of native Anglo-Saxons and African-Americans in the Gilded age?

Immigration is neither a cultural nor economic disaster. Mexican food is incredible. Latinas are beautiful. Immigrants do jobs that Americans don't want to do. 71% of farm workers are immigrants. Over 40% of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants to the United States or their children. The Donald Trump quote from when he first launched his campaign for POTUS is just so untrue:

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."

Are you a female?

No. GFY.

The point of America, according the founding fathers, was to provide a homeland for the settlers who built this country and "their progeny." Try reading the first immigration Act of 1790, or any Immigration law until the 1965 Hart-Celler Act.

Actually, the point of America, or at-least the Constitution, is to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity". Google Posterity: "all future generations of people".

The Period you're referring to is not 1790-1965, it is 1920-1965, where immigration was most restricted. In that period the US GDP grew from $690 Billion to $750 Billion.

America was a real nation, not just an economic zone for the whole world to pillage. The "American dream" was a post-WW2 idea of owning your own home with a car and a white picket fence. It was never about getting invaded by millions of africans, indians, and mexicans to the point of reducing Americans to a stateless people and a minority in their own country.

Was? You do realize that even if what you believe to be true, only 3.6% of the population is undocumented. These are probably a hefty portion of the 71% of farm workers I mentioned above. Only 1 million immigrants come to America each year. Some invasion right.

Also, "Africans, Indians and Mexicans" (see I corrected it for you haha) make up less than half of our immigrant population. Please read this article before responding with some other racist garbage, you insufferable buffoon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

Edited 5/20/2020 21:01:09

I think both Benjamin628, Enwird Scyzzurphands and goralgn have good points.

Enwird Scyzzurphands point is that mass immigration is making natives poorer. Which is true. Demographics have an impact on wealth.

Examples: Norway --> lots of natural resources, small population. Result? Less people to share, so each one gets more, wealthy nation.
Third world countries: Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc.... Uncontrollable population growth is making everyone poorer. More people to share among.



The benefits of immigration:

1. Even though uncontrolled immigration make everybody poorer on average, the country as a whole is stronger. Bigger workforce.
2. Bringing talent, skilled workers etc... good for US. You know what's kinda funny? The best immigrants-scientists in US were..... Nazi. That's right. Nazi scientists contributed a lot to US science, and were welcomed with open hands, after the end of ww2.
3. If a country is underpopulated, then immigration is making everybody richer, by filling the gaps and making more efficient economy.



So I think the answer is somewhere between two extremes.

Exteme 1: Closed borders, zero immigration policy, all population must be born on US soil.

Extreme 2: We're all equal and love everybody, so if 200 million poor people want to come here? No problem, US government will pay for their fly ticket and welcome them with all rights and benefits. We can't deny anyone the right to be free!


Not all migrants are created equal. That's why it's bad to allow criminals, and good to import skilled workers. That's right. It's the reason foreign deficit workers are the most looked-after by US government. Because good management is based on cold calculations, and that's just the hard truth, a blackpill for some, I would say. To think otherwise, is just naive. That's just how the world works.

Edited 5/20/2020 22:55:23

Thanks berdan for clearing some things up. However I do disagree with a few points:

Third world countries: Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc.... Uncontrollable population growth is making everyone poorer. More people to share among.

This is not true for Bangladesh anymore. They are graduating from a undeveloped nation into a developing nation. See Tanzania, Ethiopia, Nigeria, India, and a lot of the "freer" developing world. These are the countries with the (pre-COVID-19) GDP growth rates of 8%/year. This is what happens when you get "uncontrollable" population growth with a combination of "good" institutions and "free" society. They have a long way to go, but they are doing much better than Afghanistan, which you and I both know isn't a fair case example for immigration.

Also, google ECOWAS. You'll be surprised at some of the work that is going on in Western Africa.

So I think the answer is somewhere between two extremes.

Exteme 1: Closed borders, zero immigration policy, all population must be born on US soil.

Extreme 2: We're all equal and love everybody, so if 200 million poor people want to come here? No problem, US government will pay for their fly ticket and welcome them with all rights and benefits. We can't deny anyone the right to be free!

My beliefs on immigration are held by only about 70% of libertarians, including Amash, and not many others. Extreme 1 would mean our population, and especially Europe's population if they applied the same rules, would drop drastically over time. Not good.

Extreme 2 is also a cherry picked fear-mongering example. If we loosened immigration restrictions, the undocumented immigrants would be replaced with legal and documented immigrants. Not much would change in the composition of our country, we would just document peoples who were previously undocumented. Also, I believe that all welfare should be abolished (and perhaps replaced with a small UBI) so that isn't applicable to my argument.

Not all migrants are created equal. That's why it's bad to allow criminals, and good to import skilled workers.

Part of the immigration process is, and would be under any Libertarian, an international crime check. This is why cooperation is very important with other countries. I do believe though that beyond this, all immigrants are created equal. You can't judge someone based off of their current skills, because all people are born with zero "skills". Lots of people come to the United States and do something much more productive than they were doing.

Get an immigrant from Haiti who is making $4 a day and bring him to the United States where he can make $80 a day. That 4000% increase in his productivity is beneficial to literally everyone involved:
- GDP of the United States increases.
- The immigrant's economic status rises.
- The employer can get cheaper, more efficient, and higher quality labor.
- He can choose to send money back to any family in Haiti.

https://fee.org/articles/how-free-migration-could-double-the-economy/

Let the nations with the institutions to handle mass amounts of people. If you think that immigrants are a threat to your safety, consider who supplies your cheap goods and services.