Now that we're at the halfway point of CL, it should be about the right time to start talking about ideas and thoughts to improve Clan League. I'll be posting ideas and thoughts here shortly, and talking about it on stream later.


I would like to ask vacations/banked time not be discussed until after CL, in which I will be surveying thoughts and opinions.

Thanks,
Cowboy

maybe not accept twice surrender

"Halfway point"
-> Check sheet: "Games played: 5, Games remaining 61"
Let me wait another month to give my feedback. ;-)

(Yes I know we are slow, but no clan has even near as many games played as games finished)

:D

C and D does.

But over half the games are allocated, which is what I mean.
:p

Not having EU 3v3 is biggest issue for me. I get having some variety but we should consider always having the ladder templates.

Otherwise no complaints. Appreciate the efforts

If Cowboy and -B will follow works for Clan League we will don't have problems :D amazing guys you motivated many WZ players with this fantastic edition

I like everything so far.
I didn't like the start. It was right before Christmas, people are busy at that time. Maybe try and get things sorted before the ~10th of December or wait till the ~10th of January.

I don't know how often CL is supposed to be running, one league per year sounds good to me. But to be doing the important stuff (CLOT, Rosters, games) not during a time when a lot of people don't have time or when people are simply away.
I also agree that trying to keep it out the summer is good as students have exams and people have holidays.
But both these points would link in to, how long does it take to play 6 games...

Which I counter, people have to play games by the time limits. Organisers and admin shouldn't be looking at this December 22nd.

and as i don't think I've put it anywhere else. I'm going to Thank Cowboy and B for CL and the CLOT.

bring back vacations and ban dror for life. it's a horrible template. don't force variety on templates when you do not have a suitable sub for EU 3v3.

other than those, good job

the time you have between games allocations is tight for teamgames.
Especially for more or less unknown templates you dont know how long a game will last to adjust the time line in game allocation properly.

My idea:
Make it depending from other games of that kind.
Means start a new round of games for a template when 70% of the previous round is finished.

Advantage:
You dont have an overload of games if you play in usual speed.
If individual players stall with vacations, CL still proceeds

+1 LF.


Agreed totally on start a new round of games when the first is 60-80% done. Then, you don't push games on players and it stays with a reasonable amount of games IF you play in a normal speed...

Although some players have different usual speeds.

Otherwise, great job Cowboy and B with CLOT and Clan League!! Well done!

Edited 3/3/2020 21:47:31

Use auto-finish
After four months, do a+2l to determine the winner. In teams, total up each representative's score for the team score. The player/team with a greater score wins.
Advantage
Clan League ends faster

Heh... I am on two team templates, and at the moment I have only two CL games running. Funny how that varies between clans and divisions.

I have no suggestions so far, great job running the league, Cowboy.

I am in 7 ongoing games currently and am probabily one of the fastest in division B with 4 games finished :D

I think it's reasonable to expect a game to end in roughly a month, so having a new game start every two weeks for each template seems perfectly reasonable to me. I have 6 ongoing games in 2 team tournaments, and given that the banked time makes each individual turn less stressful, I don't think there needs to be any dramatic change.

The 10-15-10-15-10-15 allocation schedule seems a little strange - I think I'd prefer something more like 5-15-15-15-15-15, which only increases the length of the season by 5 days, but spaces things out a bit better. You don't need 10 days between getting your first and second games, since you're only playing one at a time at that point.

Yeah it was a modified version of the CL10 Qualifier system for have allocation you used.

There you'd get 2 games every 25 days. I realize that dealing with 2 games to pick from every round would be tough, so I wanted to stagger that, so I did it at 10 days.

I think we are finally seeing a seasonal, where it is an advantage having a deep roster.

Having 3 slots (esp. Team ones) will get you games quickly. If you then have to puppet team mates, you run into problems. Personally 3 slots feel perfectly fine for me, but I guess that's bc I have good mates and reduced my general game count.

I like that a deep roster gets you an advantage. Banked time is fantastic, as I can adjust my move schedule like I want. So far this season is less demanding than the one before.

Edited 3/5/2020 10:12:55

.

Edited 3/5/2020 10:12:44

Set up an X vacation per player limit in CL, either via monitoring Bot or whatever that B uses for CL, or as an additional boot feature fizzer could implement

i.e. check 1 occurs at boot time - see if a vacation is active.

check 2 at end of that vacation date.

2a. If number of vacations allowed is greater than 1, check again at end of new vacation date. Continue this until amount of vacations allowed is used up. Boot at end of this limit.

2b. If number of vacations equals 1, boot/AI replace (or in B's case if fizzer isn't the one implementing this, monitor via bot and assign a loss through the off-site ladder)

Then for future checks, reduce amount of vacations allowed per said player by amount of vacations used.

--

I'd be willing to pay B or Fizzer to implement this feature to make vacation limits -- while still allowing some -- something much easier to codify into future CLs

Edited 3/13/2020 17:34:24

Something along the lines of limiting total number of games at a time.

I’m not slow but some of my teammates are. We are now having to rush through some games just as we can’t dump 2 hours of time into one turn as we have to get to 3-5 games when we do have a chance to link up. I’d propose something similar to the tourney code where you get 2 games at a time per slot. Once one finishes you can get another one. The banked time caps how long a game can go but sometimes they just go 2 months because it takes 20 turns or so.

@Stales78:

The stack up is intended. I am playing 3 slots and so far (even tough I am more busy than last Cl) is feels manageable. I think it should be tough to play 3 slots, if you don't have good mates. This helps clans with a deep roster.

It should be about the clan with the a solid line up and not about a clan which can field his peak players who puppet the rest.

If a team mate is slow and does not contribute much, he may be the wrong team mate for someone who has 3 slots.

It also is needed because CL needed to be sped up. One season a year rendered promotions and relegations rather meaningless since a promoting/relegating clan would be completely different the next season. It was at its worst between CL9 and CL10 when the entire division C either dissolved or got super weak and that's who promoted to division B thanks to all the dropouts from A/B...

Edited 3/14/2020 01:32:36

Right now:

In A) Biomes 3v3 has 26 open games, dRoR 3v3 also has 26 open games, which equates to 3.7 games per team which for simplicity I'll round to 4.

In B) Biomes 3v3 has 24 open games, dRoR 3v3 has 32 open games, averaged together this equates to 4 games per team.

This can be looked at as either a bug (people have too many CL games) or a feature (clans are encouraged to play players in less than 3 slots). I personally see it as a bug. People can mumble "have faster teammates" but that doesn't matter if your opponents are slow.

I think one of the reasons for the stack up is 15 days boot time is free. I generally consider myself a fast player and I've often used 8 days on picks because I could. With the aggressive game creation schedule games stack up fast.

I would argue a better solution would be a vacation limit of 2 per player per clan league. While still creating games on a schedule, vacations cost a resource to activate and players will use them less frequently than the banked time. With auto-commit real world concerns only matter for absences > 6 days, and two should be sufficient to cover the gap in time. Maximum stalling is limited to 60 days on a 3v3 team which is not much different from the current 45. This would only matter for the last game created and would require all players saved their two vacations for that last game.

The only real issue is enforcement. We would have to track people's vacations. If the CLOT can auto-log vacations we can verify players only used 2 vacations at the end of clan league. In the event someone uses more than 2 vacations they forfeit their games for which the later vacations were active.

Edited 3/15/2020 07:26:25

since the arguments doesnt change i simply again say that I am for making game creation depending on the general tournament speed. if 2 of the 3 games of the round ended start the next round. (as example)

That still makes A and B far too slow, and means C and D finish far ahead of A and B.

Schedules are here to stay.

thats why i said "as example" you can make it 1 of 3 if needed. then it is faster.
or make it depending on total games of that template over all Clan League divisions

its just not really good at RoR. Without our team there likely wouldnt be any RoR game finished in B yet. That's crazy!

As there was the goal to get more diversity in templates over seasons and I dislike the way it was handled this season:

Reserve spots for "new" templates:
For example 1 team template and 1 1v1 template has to be one, which is not older than a year.

The way it was done this time, we got old templates, which just weren't liked enough in past seasons.

Clans still should vote one all suggested new templates.

Make some more panels maybe and make it RT