Will the volunteers get voted on by leaders of dead Q clans like the last time?

Edited 12/14/2018 19:39:55

Death to Clan League!

It would be nice if there was some form of official communication, If it's on a break period, that's fine with Christmas coming up but at least communicate that.

If it's left in the dark than people are going to be confused and not sure what to expect in the future. If it's not on the break period, a schedule with the events planned to happen (e.g Template vote-ins) that have tentative dates would be welcomed for Clan Leaders especially, since they have to organize and make the line-ups.

I agree that we should ban CL. If clan league did not exist, would people have cheated in it?

The ethics panel needs to punish CL. Innocent people are being blamed.

Except Xeno, you should extend his ban.

Any updates?

Expect some forum threads on/around 1st Jan. I have been hoping to get the CLOT, but that is not looking likely at this point and 1st Jan is the arbitrary deadline I picked for going back to tournaments.

It is good to hear things will be moving forward!

FiveStarGeneral has proposed to take my ban instead of me. I assume we'll get a decision on this in about 9 months. Thank you.

UPDATE: Clan League 9


• Case: ONE!
  Incident: Beren and Wick had already begun playing a CL 2v2 tournament. Wick planned to retire and not having the time to continue actively playing, they explicitly broke the rules by deciding Malakkan would take over Wick's account to avoid being booted in ongoing games.
  
  N.B. Malakkan was later officially substituted in to play the remainder of the tournament. Beren came forward with this case, though Malakkan has provided sufficient evidence showing he was at least equally involved in the decision to come forward. His verdict below has been similarly reduced as a result.
  
  Verdict:
  
  • 3 slot reduction (2 slot reduction for next season, followed by 1 slot reduction in the following season.)
    
    • Wick (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=7312632272)
    
    
  • 2 slot reduction (1 slot reduction for next season, followed by 1 slot reduction in the following season.)
    
    • Beren (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=314032996)
      
    • malakkan (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=257509174)
  
  
  
• Case: Lu Fredd
  Incident: Max and Lucien cooperated in recreating ongoing CL games using a custom scenario to simulate the game. By CL 9 it was widely understood this was not allowed, though the rules were still not specific. Their claim is that both players were new to CL, unfamiliar with the less specifically stated rules, and that their clan leader also failed to communicate this aspect of the cheating rule to the players. From the games we were provided with, an unwillingness to log into another's account to play turns because it is against CL rules would also seem to support the claim that there was no actual intent to gain an unfair advantage i.e. cheat, when this rule was broken.
  
  N.B. Max came forward with this case. Given all the particular circumstances around this case, the committee came to the decision that the base verdict that has been used thus far in other cases was not entirely necessary here, and would be lowered.
  
  Verdict:
  
  • 2 slot reduction
    
    • Lucien Müller (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=2854345641)
    
    
  • 1 slot reduction
    
    • max (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=7582497910)

Edited 1/15/2019 21:14:01

Max and Lucien cooperated in recreating ongoing CL games using a custom scenario to simulate the game. By CL 9 it was widely understood this was not allowed

No it wasn't widely understood.

Edited 1/15/2019 22:07:45

I believe asking for help regarding the concrete game is forbidden while simulating the concrete game against an oblivious player is allowed.

Ouch for SNinja..

Edited 1/16/2019 08:29:28

I believe asking for help regarding the concrete game is forbidden while simulating the concrete game against an oblivious player is allowed.

Yeah I thought that too. If no advice is given it's no help in my book.

Maybe the panel should stop punishing players for things that aren't in the rules and that half the playerbase thinks is allowed? You can add it to the rules for the future.

I think it was widely known you can't get help on your games. Is that what happened, or did they just sim the games without getting other people involved? That would be different to me. If someone took their OWN game, made a scenario and played out scenarios...I don't see why that would even be against the rules.

But it was well know there was a template limit for a reason, and that reason is to test depth of a clan and not get help.

since Malakkan is apparently Rakleader and Rakleader is apparently Malakkan does this mean One being punished punish's Sninja and Sninja and One being punished again for being too good?
ps. soon we will have no one to compete in next cl

Just an outsider opinion of someone who has not played in Clan League and will not during next season.

To me it seems like the Clan League Ethics committee is doing good work. I certainly can't judge every detail, but it seems to me that they discuss every case, judge it and transparently report it to the community. I think that is great. I sometimes feel bad for them when players complain about the judgement they got, but I guess that is part of the job - and in some cases it might be even good if punished players explain why they think a judgement may be unfair.

For ambiguity in rules: It is certainly impossible to write every single border case in rules. And it should not be. I would compare it with how the law works in most countries. You define a set of rules, which cover most necessary things. Special cases that are unclear and not defined explicitly in the rules are handled by a court - in this case by the Clan League Ethics Committee. The court has to judge by the written rules, but there is always this aspect of interpretability in law, and what the reason behind the rule was, taken into consideration for the judgement. Applied to the recreation of ongoing test games I would say that people doing so put themselves unnecessarily at risk (no need to do that in the first place, and possibly a court might punish them for that), and the court decided to punish them - totally OK. If the court decided not to punish them then it would also be OK. That would be the same thing in real world courts.

As for many people having reduced slots or not being able to participate: I think that this is a temporary issue: Everyone hopefully understood now that the Clan League Ethics committee is being serious about enforcing rules and giving punishments. So in the future, people will try to behave better and less punishments should be necessary. It is perhaps a bit bad for Clan League 11 that a lot of people cannot play as they wanted, but going forward with Clan League, I would think this is the right way.

Edited 1/18/2019 14:06:31

Just make all games real time so no one has time to consult with someone else......

that is the smartest thing said on this thread after what I said before this.

Kenny has been calling for that for years. Would it result in the best test of clan and eliminate cheating? Yes.

Trouble is the logistics would be impossible. You'd never be able to get everyone on for a 3v3 probably. You MAYBE could have players arrange solo games, but what happens when common times can't be found.

Great thought, I just can't see it happening.

Sure I have been, but it's not like you have to start a new season and be like: Hey thou shalt play RT now.

Take small steps first. I wish I had to time host and organize things but I don't anymore. First try to host a small event with some RT games. Try hosting an event that blends MD games with RT games. Progressively host bigger events, see what works out.

To say that RT would never work for CL is an odd statement to me. How do you know? Have you tried it? Has anyone hosted RT events before other than WGL hosts? It's not impossible.