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Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 09:54:05


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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https://www.warzone.com/Forum/319831-mastery-titles-draft
The idea of there being elitism in the community has risen once again; along with the idea that the strategic community is unwelcoming to new players. I'd like to know if more people think this is true and I'd like to see some good examples. Personally, i don't see this elitism thing anywhere and I think the community is welcoming enough if one is willing to invest time to join the strategic community, i.e. by communicating, wanting to improve and invest in that, not becoming a shitposter on the forums etc.
So please, examples or thoughts on whether we as a strategic community tend towards elitist behavior or not.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 09:57:31


Xenophon 
Level 61
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I hate all players below level 58
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 10:34:49


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I see no elitist except myself

Edit: and i am nice to everyone who's no annoying alt asking me for tips with hopes i praise him for good plays despite his low level. These players are just a disgusting 0.1/10.

Edited 10/18/2018 10:40:19
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 12:48:17

kicorse 
Level 62
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For me, elitism is not the major current problem, but increasing elitism will contribute to the problem of a community that is unwelcoming to new players.

MoD provides an example of this (not elitism, but the wider problem). Presumably at some point he has met an alt of an old player pretending to be a new player asking for tips. So he takes that attitude to any new players asking for tips. Now, you can blame the old player with the alt, but the upshot if we all take that approach is an unwelcoming community.

By the way, when I was a new player, I regularly got accused of being an alt, in most cases without me saying anything in chat first.

Edited 10/18/2018 12:49:14
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 12:58:19


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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increasing elitism will contribute to the problem of a community that is unwelcoming to new players.

So where do you see increasing elitism?

Presumably at some point he has met an alt of an old player pretending to be a new player asking for tips. So he takes that attitude to any new players asking for tips.

The first is true. He met Ralph the Unicorn in a game. The latter isn't true and I'm not sure how you would jump to such a conclusion. MoD was the first actual strategic player to help me improve.

when I was a new player, I regularly got accused of being an alt, in most cases without me saying anything in chat first.

And yet here you are, at the top of the strategic community. I've been accused of being an alt as well. Why would anyone care about being accused of something so numble?
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 12:58:34


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Haha you are so strange claiming that stuff :D i'll do something elitist and call you an idiot for saying things about me which you have no idea about.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 13:04:36


Sora【𝓒𝓑𝓔𝓦】 
Level 56
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i think elitism is a real thing, usually fostered by clans. if a clan is stronger, people will want to join it, to be with the rest of the "elites"

a.k.a. elitism

people have this notion they must join the strongest clan and be considered the best blah blah, but tbh its a flash game at heart and being overcompetitive is unfriendly to newcomers, sometimes things get taken too seriously


edit: that account was so obviously an alt, mod isnt unfriendly, he helped teach me warlight (well he always played games with me, which i learned a lot from) way back when and he has helped many many others. mod was just trolling if you got your feelings hurt he won

Edited 10/18/2018 13:06:23
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 13:31:19


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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i think elitism is a real thing, usually fostered by clans. if a clan is stronger, people will want to join it, to be with the rest of the "elites"

a.k.a. elitism

That's not elitism.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 13:36:21


Sora【𝓒𝓑𝓔𝓦】 
Level 56
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elitism is fostering an environment with a dominating social element such as clan league, right?
edit: and who's more dominating than the division A clans, like your own

Edited 10/18/2018 13:40:35
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 14:53:53


ViralGoat 
Level 60
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the players who claim elitism should just explain it and get it over with. I don't see elitism.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 15:51:45

kicorse 
Level 62
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I never said that elitism is an increasing problem. I said that increasing elitism will increase the problem of an unwelcoming community. This was in the context of a proposal (in the thread you linked, Farah) that I think will increase elitism.

And yes, it's annoying that words were put in my mouth, but you see MoD, I politely corrected them instead of resorting to name-calling. Maybe you could try the same, next time.

Farah's initial question seemed to be in good faith, so it's unfortunate both Sora and I received dismissive responses. But you are right that being repeatedly accused of being an alt was not a big deal for me. I don't know what makes you think I was saying that it was. But it is clearly is an example of the community being unwelcoming. Are you seriously disputing that?

I've commented in this thread - against my instincts about what was likely to be productive - because I love this game and think that it deserves better. But really, if there is no open-mindedness on the topic, then there are better uses of everyone's time than arguing on the internet. So let's leave it there.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 15:58:40

Ollie 
Level 62
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No idea why people would accuse Farah of being an alt. He is so bad i would honestly feel sorry for him if he had previous experience
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 16:16:12


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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I never said that elitism is an increasing problem. I said that increasing elitism will increase the problem of an unwelcoming community. This was in the context of a proposal (in the thread you linked, Farah) that I think will increase elitism.

I checked and that's indeed what you said. I just don't see the reasoning. Alexclusive's proposal increases elitism and elitism propels the unwelcoming community? I think that's the reasoning here (correct me if I'm wrong), but i doubt it holds true on both assumptions; having a title you probably deserved for being good doesn't mean you look down upon those who don't. And I wouldn't say the community as a whole is unwelcoming. There's a few individuals, but that will always remain.

Farah's initial question seemed to be in good faith, so it's unfortunate both Sora and I received dismissive responses. But you are right that being repeatedly accused of being an alt was not a big deal for me. I don't know what makes you think I was saying that it was. But it is clearly is an example of the community being unwelcoming. Are you seriously disputing that?

It was and still is in good faith. I don't see where the answers are dismissive, except me telling Sora something isn't 'elitism'. I don't think being called an alt is an example of the community being unwelcoming. And yes, i am disputing that.

But really, if there is no open-mindedness on the topic, then there are better uses of everyone's time than arguing on the internet. So let's leave it there.

There's people fooling around and people discussing. Where's the closed-mindedness?
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 16:53:11


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Well you call me an ass (indirectly) so i call you an idiot directly. You tell me which one you prefer. Back to the topic: i'm absolutely certain that if a player has questions aboit gameplay or strategy he will get those answered in a serious way. The community isn't as dark of a place as many seem to see it. Maybe it would be good to try it oit sometimes instead of just interacting in the limited safe space of the own clan

Edited 10/18/2018 16:56:25
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 16:57:36

TBest 
Level 60
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I don't think being called an alt is an example of the community being unwelcoming. And yes, i am disputing that.

Well, getting declined from the best clan (!MH) because you are an alt, when you are in fact not is unwelcoming ;) And, MH is not the only place/clan with no-alts 'rules'.

*Just using MH as an example here.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 17:35:38


knyte 
Level 58
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I triple picked once and someone in Apex told me to go back to playing with Legos.

Edited 10/18/2018 17:35:50
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 18:44:57


The Joey 
Level 57
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Elitism is defiantly a thing on this site. I probably am guilty of it at some point too (I bet we all have been). But I've had more than one player from A Tier clan curse me out and start insulting me over the chat after I beat them. Telling me my picks were trash, or how stupid a move was, etc. etc. That being said, WAY more often than not, the people in those same clans have offered to help or teach me. So maybe this 'elitism' only exists in certain places, and not a with all players?

Edited 10/18/2018 18:45:15
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 18:57:39


Timinator • apex 
Level 64
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Was that me @knyte?
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:14:41

FiveStarGeneral 
Level 59
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Can confirm 101st/lynx is a safe space for 101st/lynx.
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:22:36


90 \(ºº)/
Level 59
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Statistically go over the masters games in CL and check how many games they greeted their opponent before the opponent greeted them. Now do the same for some other clan. What you will notice is that statistically speaking, the players in other clans greet their opponent significantly more than masters players. This is an example of an elitist attitude versus a non-elitist one. Sometimes, even if an opponent is kind enough to greet them, certain players do not have the basic decency to respond, for example:

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16023748

Let me run the statistics for szeu: http://clan-league.westus.cloudapp.azure.com/tournament?id=7

Masters greeted opponents in 0/6 games. Greeted first in 0/6 games.
ONE greeted opponents in 3/6 games. Greeted first in 2/6 games.
Outlaws greeted opponents in 3/6 games. Greeted first in 1/6 games.
Lynx greeted opponents in 4/6 games. Greeted first in 4/6 games.
GG greeted opponents in 2/6 games. Greeted first in 1/6 games.
VS greeted opponents in 3/6 games. Greeted first in 0/6 games.
MH greeted opponents in 3/6 games. Greeted first in 2/6 games.

If you want to truly evaluate "elitism", you need a metric. The metric that I propose is the percentage of time a player greets their opponent in a match, which is a basic level of sportsmanship someone who is playing a game is expected to have.

90

Edited 10/18/2018 19:24:27
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:24:23


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Hi 90

MoD
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:26:50


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Btw in my last 20 qm matches i greeted 20/20 players first. Take that!

Edit: Also, i'd like to mention that i was the first to respond this guy on how it's going and even asked back how he feels

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=26238

Edited 10/18/2018 19:40:22
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:42:11


Xenophon 
Level 61
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I think Masters is to blame for all of the elitism and toxic behaviour on warzone, I already said I hate all players below level 58 and I'm sure my clanmates feel the same.

CL 10 Winner - Xeno
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:47:15


rakleader
Level 63
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Masters took you in Xeno, how elitist could they be?
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:48:43


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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So according to 90's statistics, Lynx is the least elitist. Eat that, you nubs. Your picking is bad and you should feel bad.
On a serious note, that's not a serious metric i hope?
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 19:50:34


Buns157 
Level 68
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Meh, not sure if that's a good troll or serious.

Saying hey every game in my opinion is near pointless, especially if you don't know your opponent. If I have to play my turn while having a poop to not get booted then I doubt I'm gonna say hi.

As a newbie if you play against Masters and ask for tips after the game, they'll point them out. That's pretty non elitist
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 20:11:13


Xenophon 
Level 61
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Now lets run the statistics for VI: http://clan-league.westus.cloudapp.azure.com/tournament?id=9
Masters greeted opponents in 1/6 games. Greeted first in 0/6 games.

In this game we totally ignored 89th lap, probably because he is below level 60.

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16237177


In this game Outlaws greeted us kindly but mod told them he hoped they would lose because 1) Bonsai is ugly 2) aoc is a troll prick
so obviously we'd never greet them.

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15409883
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 20:31:50


Cowboy 
Level 58
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"If you want to truly evaluate "elitism", you need a metric. The metric that I propose is the percentage of time a player greets their opponent in a match, which is a basic level of sportsmanship someone who is playing a game is expected to have. "

I don't always greet people because I'm lazy. Am I still elitist?
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 20:34:31


Xenophon 
Level 61
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Legend has it if you mention 'Nauzhror' three times, he'll appear and start abusing you on the forum

Edited 10/18/2018 20:35:42
Where is the Elitism?: 10/18/2018 21:48:47


linberson 
Level 61
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I triple picked at least twice. #noelitist

I also learned how to hashtag a few days ago. I might teach it to Alex soon. #teachlynx

Ususally I ignore the players who are idiots/elitists, many are idiots on some days and really nice on others. Myself included.

Thats life.

As a thumb rule I would recommend to everyone not to write stuff on the internet that you wouldnt say to someones face.

@xeno: Please make an analysis on every clan that has posted here, including mission statement, world view, clan tag/ image, and elitist status.
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