Some people have some political agendas that they are wanting to achieve. Such as...

Remove EU 3v3 which gameplay is a bit "scripted" and experience effect is strong, so players playing it for years have a strong advantage on others, and you cant fill the gap of experience in a few weeks on this template. Or add wastelands or some cards to make it a bit more exotic and neutral to everyone.

No, You can learn the template and gather experience on it yourself. Adapt , Learn and improve. Besides, This can be made to every template and a idea as "ambitious" as this will have a more negative effect on the league.

General Points:

• The league shouldn't babysit clans for putting out unreliable players who get booted. I believe there should be support networks and ways for clans to reduce boots if they do occur. (Substitutes) . I think the league has done the most that it possible can do in this area and anything more added would nearly promote clans to put in unreliable players hoping they become reliable.
  
• With Alts/Membership this is a product of the clan culture in Warlight. Elite clans have the ambition to become the best and will recruit every possible way to find the best players to become the best clan. It's simple competitive nature. Clan League may be a catalyst to this cycle but it has been here since the beginning of clans just on a bigger scale now.
  
• M'Hunters I understand your pain. I know personally for me I had to put a lot of players who wanted to play Clan League in the subs bench and obviously nobody likes to be subbed. However with GG + GGr , Lynx + 101st . They are technically two clans with seperate identities with their own different forums with their own different communities. Yes the difference is small but this is technically true. So, When we look at the 101st GGr Apprentice line-ups I do honestly feel there's a bit of consistency. I can always know 1 or 2 names that would always be on that line-up. When I contrast this consistency with a M'Hunters B team I just feel there would be a lot of chopping and changing , There would be no consistency. Conclusion being , There's not a high turnover of players between training clans when compared to what I would think it would be in A + B team situation under one clan. Leading to inconsistent line-ups.
  
  
  
  

They have lost only 9 (!) games in division A, and nothing prevents them from recruiting the best assets of other clans and further their domination in the next 10 CL's. Is this what we want ?

Nothing lasts forever m8. This is more of a problem in rl high school tourneys such as "Science Bowl", but not a problem on secondary sources of competative play such as warlight. We can't always be this free forever. The first 7 clan leagues were dominated by APEX and WM. Both clans are effectively defunct at this point. 20 was at one point overpowering, its long gone too. Whose to say a new upstart such as 7th heaven will one day overpower an aging masters. Players retire, new players come in, leaders lose motivation, its what happens. I doubt that Masters will last forever, either.

However, the cycle will always stay the same. Elite clans will poach because they know they can and they will do it. Clan league isn't going to change any of this. If you want this to change, you have to prove it by getting a clan of a more inclusive nature that has elite players to decline these invitations. Its a challenge, but in the end, a challenge I am willing to take up.

Some people have some political agendas that they are wanting to achieve.

Mmmm for the record, I didnt speak as a MH but as a spectator and admirator of CL, suggesting ideas that I personnally feel may improve the league, by making it more fair in every aspect and going further to what I think CL is (should be) about.

I'm aware MH have been struggling on 3v3 EU since the losses of Farah and Smoove, and that we can improve on this template and we are working on it, but please keep in mind I spoke as myself here and not as a member of MH, with my personal point of view on those questions. Another example, I'm pretty sure we won't have boots next season, but I wouldn't like our teams to win games on boots. It's like a Champions League final won thanks to a red card, penalty or referee mistake. I want to see fair play, fair rules and good competition for every clan, not what favours my clan and clanmates.

For EU specifically, I still think this template is unfair to most clans as probably the most technical template that require years of training to reach Masters players level on it. I mean these guys know what difference it makes to pick a spot in 15 instead of 14 for example ! How many players on WL manage so well on this template ? For these guys, EU is like a chess board with 1 efficient set of moves to do every turn and will always find it, and will never (rarely) do a mistake.

Anyway I forgot CL panel offers vote on templates so community decides, this is good enough.

Edited 6/7/2017 11:46:41

Cats is considering joining Clan League 10.

Elite clans will poach

I understand this line of reasoning but I don't think Poaching is a big issues , people move to the clans that best fit there needs. It's natural people move to other clans where they clan mates have similar skills or better as apposed to stagnating as the best or one of few 'decent' players.

"They have lost only 9 (!) games in division A, and nothing prevents them from recruiting the best assets of other clans and further their domination in the next 10 CL's. Is this what we want ?"

High benchmark breeds competition , CL has got more competitive from what I have heard it is rare for people to go 6-0 now

Not using 3v3 europe because it is the most demanding temp skill wise according to you, is such an odd argument since cl is about determining the best strategy clan, so if it really is the most demanding temp it should always be a chosen template.

Also what does unfair mean here? as i understand what your saying it means masters are dominating and that's not unfair that is just because they are the best. Cl is a competition and i think it would beneficial if it stayed that way, and if there was temps not chosen because of the skill needed to play them, i dont see how cl really is a competition anymore

Edited 6/7/2017 16:21:02

I think we should have lotto maps for CL10 - then everyone will have a chance to win!

+1 to suggestion of a clan fielding 2 teams in the league.

For example, if MH or Hydra makes a second team-it will still be better than some clans(from CL performance-say Dark lords or Olympus, not being rude to them/offensive towards them). This will help all clan members to have fun during clan league competition and may help many to improve if they're playing in such events.

Remove EU and replace with... what exactly? We already have a lame template as the secondary 3v3, do we really need to open up another slot for a possibility of Great Lakes 2.0?

I think there was some discussion over having rotating templates - this is especially useful for 1v1s with so many possible templates, lots on ME/MME - but I'm not sure if it applied to 3v3 due to a.) EU being the most popular 3v3 template in CL and b.) not enough good 3v3 templates to choose from. Africa and India were made by Division A clans and tested by Division A clans (I assume for the sole purpose of having more choices for 3v3 templates in CL), so I can agree with the "experience" factor really being prominent in those templates.

If either Africa or India got in (which I would've preferred over RoR), then you could make that argument. But there are already many people who at least have some grasp over EU - there are so many avenues you can take to learn the template. So, I don't buy into the "experience" factor for EU.

This is a very interesting topic with important questions and very good proposals, and many of these issues are not only dedicated to the CL but other competitive events too!

Unfortunatelly, I don't have enough time to write my ideas now so only a quick jaunty reaction ;)

As things stand right now, Masters have the strongest bunch of players, maybe 8 of the 10 best currently active players on WL

I am the only one who feel that this is a strong exaggeration? :O

They have lost only 9 (!) games in division A, and nothing prevents them from recruiting the best assets of other clans and further their domination in the next 10 CL's. Is this what we want ?

My answer is: absolutelly no!
So we need an Antitrust Law againts Masters! Lets divide them 2 or more parts! Truth to the CL community!

Anyway, I think MotD is the real sinner, he run the CL for his own clan, which is dominated the CL (and find out why ONE! run so good? yes, the other sinner is Beren!).
To continue, he did a ladder for himself, MDL is totally dominated by MotD...
Lets bisect him as well! :P

Jokes aside (yes, they were jokes, except we really bisect MotD, Mo and tD would be much better imo ), I totally agree with Aura Guradian: "nothing lasts forever"

And keep the good work guys, the CL never was so interesting and professional than now!

And keep the good work guys, the CL never was so interesting and professional than now!

^ I guess this should be said more often.

When nobody mentions you are doing a bad job. You are usually doing a good job.

I don't understand the argument that limiting templates (btw, we already reduced it by 1 template a couple seasons ago to promote depth), will mean more players CAN play in the CL. Clans can already use 18 players if they want to. Nobody is forcing them to slot people at 3 templates now, they are choosing to.


I agree that less templates allowed means more players MUST play. Is that a good thing? Not sure. If you look at WG, it just means we'll have to add more players from somewhere. That isn't a huge deal, as we are always looking for up and coming talent.

The flip side is that if you have a smaller but really good clan (WM, Apex, 20 in the past), you won't get enough players and you will probably just kill that clan entirely. If the 3-4 still active players want to play in the CL, they will be forced to go somewhere else to play. In past seasons, they just recruited more (like Apex grabbing timon or Beren) to have enough to cover a couple inactive people. But if you force them to add 5-6 new players, then they may just fold at that point. Do you want to kill off clans for the sake of forcing depth?

As it was pointed out, most clans use whatever depth they have already, so why force it? WG has always used everyone who wanted to play. I know GG always has as well. This seems like you are trying to fix something that is not broken.

Masters fielded everyone who wanted to play. ONE, turtles and blitz as well. I don't know about french and lynx for sure, but i think they also used everyone who wanted to play. Out of the A clans everyone except outlaws seems to have fielded all players available.

Also, i'd like to mention that masters don't poach every player we would like to see with us :D not sure if not informed or just jealous. What i know is, that big clans won't benefit from a max 2 tournament/player rule, cause guess where the players the "elite clans" are missing would come from ;)

Also, i'd like to mention that masters don't poach every player we would like to see with us

Only poaching (trying to) some of them?

What i know is, that big clans won't benefit from a max 2 tournament/player rule, cause guess where the players the "elite clans" are missing would come from ;)

Hmmm, so for Masters that would be Apprentice, right?

EDIT: Anyway, I think there are good arguments on both sides here.

Edited 6/8/2017 20:11:22

I think 3 slots per player are fine. If you want to award depth, it could be an idea to shorten the duration of clan league and allow to use 2 players per slot so they have less games and can focus on the ones they have.

Yeah current max of 3 slots per player isn't really a problem. I only wanted to jump on WG. :P

That said, TBest's talk about clans' second team reminded me of Developmental League back from CL7. It was a 6-clan (that's how many turned up on it) competition with less tournaments, played on Clan League templates, by CL clans, with players that were not in the main roster playing in A/B/C/D1/D2. Maybe it would be a nice idea to come back to? I think it could as well contain clans too 'small' to join "main" CL but not sure how many could be crammed into one division.

Tbest the only master i can remember we poached was pardon. You can claim we are so super bad guys, but it's a fact that we are just more attractive as a strategic clan than others, so not really surprising people ask us to join.

About the question of where players would come from if elite clans would have to recruit i wasn't talking about masters cause we got enough members. Also we let apprentice be a clan on their own and don't poach from them. We just give them the option to play and learn with top players and don't need them to feed us. Again i think you are misinformed or just salty. I guess i can take it as compliment

Pardon was double-poached :P.

I dont see a problem with taking rising players from other clans. Why should anyone have a problem with that?

If someone is vastly better than most of their clan (i am not referring to anyone in particular here), dont you want them to be in a clan with people who compliment their playstyle? It is like getting mad at a professional athelete that plays for years on a bad team and moves on in free agency.

Of course that clan could get better as well and rise to their level, but you cant be mad at the destination clan for recognizing talent. Most great clans on here are not like [20], which was great players coming together at once. Most are people who are similar and pretty good forming up and growing as a group. Masters did it that way, so did WG. We added a few people along the way that were already good if course, because people go inactive.

Most of their acquisitions were great players who were in clans that kindof folded. Dont hate on them for that.

Edited 6/9/2017 04:43:27