I didn't find it difficult (I played it three times, and won each time), but it IS much more difficult than the other levels (even after it). It was the only one where I had to think much, so I enjoyed it. I'd keep that one and get rid of some of the others.

Here's a thought, and I'm curious if you agree:

* I'm not sure including Commanders in these AI-games is a good idea.

AIs don't know how to defend their Commanders. In ever scenario I've played so far (except for "the Boss", but he's not even a Commander, it turns out), as soon as I find/meet an enemy Commander, I can kill him on the next turn. That's not terrible interesting.

You can see this is in some of the ridiculously short runs on these scenarios (e.g. won in 5 turns).

I think that, if Commanders are to be kept in these levels, they should be made much stronger (like the Boss).

Further thoughts:

You can see this is in some of the ridiculously short runs on these scenarios (e.g. won in 5 turns).

I think that, if Commanders are to be kept in these levels, they should be made much stronger (like the Boss). Removing them is also a good option. Alternatively, you could have Commanders ONLY for the player, if you want the player to learn about them.

A good example is the Europe level, where you Airlift armies for reinforcements.

In the original version, you had to give a lot of thought to production levels, whether to help your ally or attack your enemy, which bonuses to break, and so on.

In the new version, you just rush headlong until you find the enemy Commander and kill him. (And we already have a level about that.) When I played it, I only had time for one Airlift before I finished the scenario. Not half as interesting, in my opinion!

* Most of the maps are far too linear in the first half of the scenarios. This makes them easy as well as *boring*.

An example of a non-boring map/scenario is World War 2320, which is great. But many of the scenarios just before or just after are just a slog where, if you play competently, you just advance on every available front at every turn. There's not much to think about, which makes for a boring game.

I'd be curious to hear if a "beginner" agrees, however - it's possible that for a player starting out, the levels are quite challenging.

Further thoughts:

The issue of AI and Commanders could be "fixed" by altering the AI code in a couple of simple ways.

1. When an enemy Commander is in sight, deploy a large stack (randomized, so as not to be too predictable) and attack early in the turn.

2. When an enemy borders your Commander, move away (as appears to be the current case) but also deploy a large defensive army to the Commander's territory. (In order to avoid being easily eliminated.)

That might be enough to make this work! It would teach players how to use Commanders better.

Let's try this again :

Why are almost all the levels made by 2-3 people?
What happened to the creativity of the Single Player Levels thread?

Fizzer mentioned on a stream, 2 days ago i think, that all the current levels in use for the preview levels are made by himself, but he is open if you can create some sort of story around a specific nation all in single player levels that you should contact him if you have finished all of them.

Poireau bad idea, takes so much effort to completely eliminate each AI on every level. Especially the late levels are awful if there are no commanders because you have to take every territory on the map basically to get full elim. It gets so so so tedious it is a bad idea. Maybe changing code for defense of commander is an ok idea, but then the last level will become completely impossible (you'll see if you try it)

The last level currently has a completion rate of less than 1%... It's impossible without stupendous luck as it is!

I think that's an argument for the last level to change, not for the commander AI to stay stupid. I had to take the entire map on many of the later levels anyway just because the commanders often hide in the corners.

Edited 5/29/2016 15:42:18

But if its the last level it should be near impossible. Makes it more of an achievement if you complete it, while not stopping you progressing onto new levels since its the last.

The problem I find with the last level is that it's almost impossible - not due to my lack of skill, but due to my lack of luck. I've now attempted it 40 times and can't be bothered with it any more - I'm tired of playing through the first few turns hoping the first boss army spawn doesn't land on troops I've just deployed to increase my income and knock out two bonuses at once, or my largest army, or on a choke point I was holding, or somewhere he can easily explode from, or... Then I have to hope that he doesn't deploy so many more armies on the spawn point that I can't contain it, all the while hoping to kill the first enemy commander by turn 4/5 and the second by turn 7/8, which involves relatively blind guessing as to where they might be (especially for the second one in Europe) and then even more luck on turn order (if you attack before the enemy commander moves).

The old 'Insane' Challenge was incredibly difficult for a beginner (I probably played it 10-20 times before I won it - I did all the single player levels before ever really trying multiplayer), but at least once you learn how to do really efficient expansion, when to attack and when to defend, you've got a genuine 50-80% chance of winning the level. Just occasionally you'll get unlucky with the AI coming through somewhere too early or sorting out their bonus areas very quickly and you'll get overrun, but it's very much biased towards skilled players being able to win in conditions that are vaguely possible within the rest of WL.

Imo it would be sad if the level changed. I find it pretty cool and it took me 37 attempts to beat it. If the first 5 turns weren't very good, just restart

Edited 5/30/2016 03:56:45

I think that's an argument for the last level to change, not for the commander AI to stay stupid. I had to take the entire map on many of the later levels anyway just because the commanders often hide in the corners.

This was precisely my point! Thank you.

Imo it would be sad if the level changed. I find it pretty cool and it took me 37 attempts to beat it.

A very fair point!

In case that was ironic, i'll try to explain. It's the last level. It HAS to be hard. Nobody has to beat it if he doesn't want to, you miss no other levels because of it. But for the ones that really really want it, it is possible. Exactly how a last level should be

Don't get me wrong, I want a really hard final level too.

This final level definitely makes you think. That's good.

It forces you to work out the required path to complete it. That's good too.

That required path has very little room for error. No problem.

90% (or more) of the time I stray from the required path it's down to something that's out of my control. That's a problem.


The problem for me is that the level forces you to play with no contingency, which seems like bad play to me. I know I need 8 troops for expansion on turn 4 otherwise I won't be able to deal with the spawned armies on turn 5, so if I meet the South American commander I can only kill him if he doesn't deploy extra troops (AND I get to move first). On turn 5 I'll have to deal with a spawned stack of 7 somewhere on my territory, and that if it landed on one of the two Southern States I was expanding from (and kills 6 troops without fighting them) it's over, or if the South America AI broke my bonus and the spawn was somewhere else it's over. Then if the spawned stack then has more than 1 troop deployed, it's also probably over.

I've been 'close' to killing the boss twice now in 73 attempts (I was waiting for someone to arrive on a delayed flight last night!), and I've played another one time where I didn't play well enough from a decent position but should have had a shot. I took him down to a strength of 64 one time where I knew the stack wasn't big enough but all of my income was being destroyed and my commander was going to die the following turn, and the other time the stack was big enough for the boss, but not for the additional 104 troops he sent along with it. Am I right in thinking it's not even over when the boss dies like the other boss levels?

Edited 5/30/2016 11:49:44

Another hint: if you kill his commander, the AI won't die. You have to eliminate him. Not 100%sure, but i think he'll stop spawning if you eliminated the commander at least..

So to me that means... Use the army that kills Europe AI to wreak some havoc in Asia, get followed by the boss (and always keep 2 steps ahead because the boss is the first unit the AI moves), when that army is over 100-130 you can emergency blockade to kill the boss (and probably stop spawning armies - woohoo!), but you still need to have the Americas under total control all this time plus expansion to another continent. I've noticed in other maps (e.g. the RoR with the boss clones) that AIs won't deploy to defend against attacks from about 80+, so presumably the Europe AI-killer needs to get big fast so that you're not wasting all you income on it for too long.

Sound about right?

I don't know what to do about when the boss comes through Africa or America though.


Since you're the only one to complete it so far, it took you 37 attempts, and objectively you're one of the top WarLight players in the world, how many more attempts do you think it would take you to win again?

You have to kill the SA AI at turn 4 or 5, kill the big AI's spawn in the next few turns and also move into asia to break some bonuses. A stack of like 10 was enough for me to hunt down the european AI. after he's eliminated and you still got SA and parts of africa with position in asia it was easy