So where are these people when team game sign ups come around? lol

It feels like one of those things people agree we should do b/c it sounds like a good idea despite not truly actually wanting to do it themselves. (Essentially they're saying YES team games are important ... for other people to play.)

Person 1: Should we have team games in CL?
Person 2: Yes, of course! Team games are important! If not CL, then where? KEEP THEM IN!
Person 1: How many templates should we have?
Person 2: LOTS!
Person 1: You going to sign up for a team game?
Person 2: Well no, b/c reasons, pls find someone else.

krinid's remark is funny because as for Python, the players we fielded (and which were fine with being fielded) on team slots tend to prefer 1v1 in the poll so far and vice versa

I agree with Beren. A lot of people play clan league in order to enjoy high quality team games that aren’t offered in any other event. Clan League became more team game focused after season… 3? I think. The reasoning we used back then was to get the competitive community to branch out of 1v1s. I think that there’s a lot of neat ways to play this game if you involve more people. I think it’s a really good way to determine an entire clan’s skill. Being able to work together and actually involve each other in decisions and game inputs is, at least, what we valued back then. I think for the most part that’s still what is valued now.

isn't playing a 3v3 with alts not simply a 1v1 game with more picks and different colours...?


what i d like to see in cl is direkt matchups between clans

like in most sport competitions

so all games between two clans are created in the same week
and the winning clan gets for example 3 points
the matchpoints are then used as set points like in tennis
or goal difference like in football

i guess this would make the direct matchups more competative

In a Qualifier in CL11 we have done it that way, that to a certain date all games of one clan vs clan combination is made. End of the song was that one clan completely vaporized before the last time frame and one clan got all the benefit of them retiring. That can occur at least for round robin matchups.

In a knockout stage I also could imagine that could be cool. I like the general idea. We actually debated about playing Division D in a partly knockout style,

... but the timely oranganization appeared us too unclear. Consider to finish 1 clan vs clan encounter and decide who is knocked out and who proceeds, you need to wait until all games including the 3v3s end. That could have become a long knockout phase.

Edited 12/13/2022 13:27:54

Years ago, a younger, more immature version of me would have sworn by 1v1 as the ultimate test of a player's skill, and therefore, a clan's combined skills. It doesn't help that it took me a long time to become a decent team player -- and I still have a lot to learn.

I've grown since then. It took me a while to realize that when you put together two or three great teammates, it's no longer just about their combined skills in the game; the best teams are worth more than just the sum of their individual ELO ratings. It's how they work together and coordinate that really makes teamplay come alive, and isn't that what clans truly are about? 2v2/3v3 are areas I personally need to improve the most on, so at the risk of choosing a format I'm relatively mediocre at I still have to advocate for the competitive team aspect of CL. Our competitions just would not be the same without it.

High powered team games are what makes CL great! They're also exhausting and I can see how small clans or clans with only a few active strategic players struggle with them. Arguably though this is a measure of a clans strength and part of the point of the competition. I like the current balance but don't know what the optimal balance is.

I don t think cl should be a knock out system

round robin and winning consequitive matches over time is part of what makes a league attractive

if clans would ge head to head i also don t see a problem of teamcompletely vaporizing or being disqualified
just delete the score of all their games from the table

One other issue with knockout systems is that after the first round, you have just eliminated half of the engagement with users (meaning, 50% of the people competing now have much less reason to care about, and watch the results), and that progressively continues with each round of eliminations. You end up with only two clans that actually gets to see the finals and thus play the entire season.

This game is global. Checking profiles, it's nice to see flags from around the globe.

Usually, Clans form within time zones.

Have Regional division games, follow up with National play-offs, then finally the world cup.

You can have both RT & MD. Have RT (and MD) for Clans that are near each other, and have MD for Clans far away from each other. If we're going to call it a League, then let's play it as a League.

Have Home and Away games. Best part, no traveling.

The Warzone Clan Worlds League. Has a nice ring to it.

Only very few clans form within timezones

I think there is a difference between struggling to fill teams and struggling to fill teams with a competent line up.

In terms of the concern about more 1v1s meaning more player diversity I disagree since teamgames allow you to field players that are good teammates but don't necessarily have the skills for being successful in a 1v1. Less team games would mean less slots available for up and coming strategy players imo.

Also if there are any top players in Div A clans that aren't getting a look in at the line up and want to play in CL there are plenty of clans out there that would love to field you. Stop merging all the top clans together and we will see more player diversity

Also I love team games - If they weren't in CL I wouldn't care about the competition in the same way. If I want to know how strong a clan is at 1v1 templates I'll go count the clan flags on the MTL.

If we want to judge the best clans then we need to test what they are like when playing as a clan.

I speak for myself.

Team games are the focal point of CL.
BUT:
- we play less team games in general. Once we used to play 3vs3 EU all day, now no more;
- playing team games is hard. Crosschecking/discussing/ delays etc.. It's exhausting sometimes;
- there are a lot of clans, now with limit at 40 players and often involved in CW. Not easy for them create competitive team rosters;
- most new players are not interested in picking team games;

So i get why we want to reduce them

This is another thread that blows up yet I have little to no understanding or expertise about.

Because of this I think we should scrap clan league all together, if I don't play it then why should anyone else!

And my opinion is now fact because I say so. No one else can persuade me from this

Noone believes in UFOs

I like teamgames too.

However, I agree it is a difference between wanting teamgames and playing teamgames and being able to play team games comeptitively.

If you look on the ladder participation. You find more players participating in the 1v1 ladder, than in the 2v2 and 3v3 ladder combined.

Certainly it is also easier to join the 1v1 ladder, than finding teammates for 2v2 and 3v3 ladder and join the ladder together. But the problem is the same. It is also harder to build teams than playing 1v1s.

@UFO

And my opinion is now fact because I say so. No one else can persuade me from this

Addendum: and no needs to dissuade you from this, either. You are free to continue believing this for as long as you like. LMAO

To everyone that just chimed in saying they like team games in CL, let's test the waters, are you are signed up to play a team game in CL17? (;

Actually a lot of people showing love for team games, more than I expected given the difficulties I've seen getting interested players to sign up for them, but maybe that is just the Discovery & MH experiences, and it's different elsewhere where most of you seem to be from. (then again alex did say it was similar in Python...)

What I do find interesting is that everyone seems to agree that team games are strenuous, require extra work/coordination. And also that we tend to gravitate (for the most part) towards 1v1 games while outside of CL. But there were also comments saying that what we look for in clans is collab and strong communication to play in team games. I challenge that ... if most people gravitate towards 1v1's outside of CL, this would indicate that you're not in fact seeking our team mates for team games by joining a clan. Most people join for the community, camaraderie, learning/teaching, intra-clan leagues/ladders, association, organized games/tourneys (1v1's, FFAs and also team games), etc.

Either way is fine though, these facts don't have to align. It's okay to like team games as a concept but not typically play them, but still want them in CL. I just challenge the idea that this is intrinsically what people join clans for. And I think 1 player above probably stated it best (forget who), that b/c team games are in fact so much effort, people don't really play them, especially competitively, so it is good to have 1 place where everyone comes together to play them competitively.

Anyhow - to clarify, are you all saying that you think the # of team games is good? Or just that you want team games to remain in CL? Remember that the suggestion from alex wasn't to eliminate them, just to reduce the # of them.

As for knockout stage - Realtor pointed out the issue with that. It means essentially that you're compressing games into a tighter slot, then eliminating entire clans potentially before they'd have even had a chance to truly strut their stuff. By the end, only a few will care and will just be waiting for the next season to start.

As for RT games - it would never work. Just not going to be possible to schedule playing times for this many players even if they were in the same time zones, but we're definitely not. If CL ever becomes a matter of "your next game is schedule for Friday 8pm EST" (note: a reasonable time in my time zone), I'm out, and I suspect many others would be too. I simply won't adjust IRL schedule to meet the needs of many RT WZ games, CL or otherwise. Especially when unlike CW (I play quick SE games there), these would likely end up being >1 hr deep thinking games. Tbh, it'd probably be >30% no shows.

Maybe it comes down to what Rento said, that people regard CL more like the team competition of Warzone than like the most elite competition in general. That's far from where I see it, but I do understand what people mean.