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How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 00:34:21

Neuenburg
Level 55
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I recently played this Buffo (SVK) guy on the other team and he cursed me for surrendering claiming I should have voted to end the game instead of surrendering to save a precious 30 minutes of his life--but at the end they all accepted my surrender. No need to repeat what words he had left for me... So, is it true that surrendering can actually be an offensive move, and when should it be avoided?
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 01:00:37


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Could you link the game? For your specific game, it doesn't seem to me from the description that you did anything wrong.

In general:
  • 1v1 games should almost always end in surrender. It's considered rude to not surrender when you know the game is lost. This is due to a game mechanic challenge on Warlight where the game typically ends well after it's decided.
  • Team games with 2 teams should almost always end in surrender, but teams should surrender together- otherwise you leave your teammate(s) hanging and outnumbered. It's considered rude for teams to continue playing after the game is decided, and it's considered rude to abandon your teammates if they legitimately think the game is still winnable (and aren't being ridiculous).
  • FFAs or games with >2 teams are the edge case. Warlight, like Risk, suffers from the kingmaker problem- that is, players who can't win the game can still decide who else will win the game. There you should keep playing as long as you still have an impact on the outcome of the game, even if you yourself can't win- but the norm is arbitrary, this is a pretty fatal flaw in FFAs, and you should just check in game chat if you're not sure about the norms because players might have different expectations. Anyways, this is what the "Surrenders must be accepted" setting is for- if players don't think you should surrender, they can just reject your surrender.


If a player cursed you, you should report them for rude language. Surrendering prematurely or taking too long to surrender aren't rule-breaking; being disrespectful to your fellow players is. Bufflo (SVK) should have politely talked to you. (I am not a moderator. This is just advice from another player.)

Also, tbh, if the game ends on VTE, then no one gets any points. Surrendering will affect win rates but at least it'll help someone level up. I only VTE when the game is broken/unplayable/patently unfair in my favor.

Edited 9/1/2022 01:01:05
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 01:24:53


krinid 
Level 61
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I VTE when it doesn't make sense to play out the game. Typically, as l4v said, when the game is broken in some way.

Surrender is subjective but people do it all the time in FFAs, and as stated above, it can often change the outcome of the game.

The problem though - if you don't surrender in a game you know you can't win, what do you do? Do you try to win normally anyhow? Just find a spot to hide your units and see if everyone else kills each other and there is still a chance to win? Sabotage another play to 'make a king' someone of your choice (and more often than not, deny it to someone who has wronged you that game)? Attack every player equally? Some would rather you just surrender if you're no longer a contender to win (especially those who gain most from your surrender).

It also depends on whether surrendered players turn into AIs or just vanish into neutral units, and where your units are & how much land/bonuses you have, etc.

Suffice to say, in a large FFA game, surrender or not, there will likely be someone who isn't happy with whatever you choose.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 01:26:24


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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How are FFA players able to enjoy FFAs when so much of the outcome is up to the chaos of what random losing players choose?
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 06:44:02


καλλιστηι 
Level 61
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NEVER SURRENDER
-Captain MAK Sparrow
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 06:48:22


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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If you refuse to end the game on surrender, I will refuse to end the game on elimination.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/1/2022 15:08:38


krinid 
Level 61
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I'm not a huge FFA fan but I like the occasional game. Hardcore fans must just like the chaos, I suppose? I do find that quite often 1 player gets so strong that he wins unless everyone bands against him, and most often, no one bands together. No one wants to be "that first player" to get targeted by the beast and get knocked out, especially those directly bordering the beast (most/quickest to lose), and often those farthest away (least impacted by the issue at this time, happy to let others deal with it for the time being). So the beast wins anyhow.
How are FFA players able to enjoy FFAs when so much of the outcome is up to the chaos of what random losing players choose?


Edited 9/1/2022 15:11:24
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:26:29

vena
Level 60
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Surrender is and should be a personal thing
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:28:58


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Surrender is and should be a personal thing
Good in principle, but horrible norm for a game where the outcome is almost always decided well before elimination and where elimination can turn a 5min game into a 45min game.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:30:02


Samek ● 
Level 57
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Spam ●●● until opponent surrenders. Very fancy!
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:31:13


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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^ you will get warned for this, even if you do it every other turn until the opponent surrenders.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:32:16


Samek ● 
Level 57
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Twas a joke. ;) ●
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:34:35


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Are the rules a joke to you, Samek? When you signed up your account, you were shown the Warzone rules and asked if you agree with them. You clicked the button to say that you did.

But then I see comments like this:
Spam ●●● until opponent surrenders.

This makes me think your position is that it's OK to exploit game chat to spam your opponent. If that's the case, you should just quit Warzone and go play a different game.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:35:27


Samek ● 
Level 57
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Alt + F4, right click, delete... -silence-
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:47:57


Samek ● 
Level 57
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Are the rules a joke to you, l4v.r0v? When you signed up your account, you were shown the Warzone rules and asked if you agree with them. You clicked the button to say that you did.

But then I see comments like this:
you should just quit Warzone and go play a different game.

This makes me think your position is that it's OK to exploit the forum to post disrespectful language. If that's the case, you should just quit Warzone and go play a different game.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 18:59:36


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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for legal purposes i must clarify my comment was a tongue-in-cheek copypasta in reference to something else. As I made clear to Samek via GC, I would much prefer Samek continue playing Warzone and keep adding some fanciness to everyone else's game experience. ●●●!
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 19:06:10


Samek ● 
Level 57
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● The Fancy Dot fully endorses l4v's shenanigans. ●
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 19:14:54


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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guys when you play a multiplayer game you are signing a social contract. players expect you to play fairly, nicely, and to that extent, surrender when it is appropriate. you have to join the game and it is good to read settings. if people not surrendering truly bothers you, make your settings in a way where stalling is non-optional, such as low boot timers or smaller maps, or learn to block those you dont want joining

no one can force you to surrender, either, and if you are not comfortable or feel it is inappropriate time, you dont have to defend yourself either
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/2/2022 19:38:16


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Nicely put, Tacky. You're free to choose when to surrender but there are norms that make the game more fun for all players if we continue to abide by them.
How bad is it to surrender?: 9/3/2022 00:05:10


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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exactly :)
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