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Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 04:14:43


TheGreatLeon
Level 61
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My current roll out is:
*Rare Mine Boost
*Epic Bonus Money Boost
*Epic Army Camp Boost
Epic Hospital Boost
Rare Mercenary Discount
Rare Item Values
Rare Ore Values

Hindsight being 20/20, would definitely have pushed Merc Discount and Item Values to Epic before Army Camp Boost but it is what it is.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 04:37:30


TheGreatLeon
Level 61
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Oh and for what it’s worth I agree with Bonus Money Boost being the first Legendary, just don’t think you have quite enough to justify it yet.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 05:24:00


Master Jz 
Level 62
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Before you upgrade, there's one thing you should consider. The faster you can beat a level, the less money you'll generate with Bonus Money Boost. It's a good artifact to have, particularly for challenge levels, but it'll lose value as you upgrade your advancements. The same is true for Army Camp Boost.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 06:31:56


asdfgh
Level 24
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About Mercenary Discount. I have the Advancement max out and if I get the 4 techs it's 72% discount. The rare only brings that up to 74%. Considering I buy most of my mercs late I generally have at least 3 if not all 4 on larger levels. It just doesn't add much.

Like Master Jz said most Artifacts aren't as useful the faster you complete levels combined with Advancements. I can already see Item Values not being as useful if you don't have time make things. I think Ore Sell Values Advancement plus Ore Value Artifact and Mine Boost Artifact might be really useful after a third or fourth ascension. Also if you don't have time to upgrade hospitals than Hospital Discount and Hospital Boost aren't as useful. Almost think Cache Boosts are the ones to upgrade if I end up playing this long enough.

The one fun thing about upgrading one to Legendary is that digs will be intriguing again since there will be certain Artifacts that I'll be looking forward to getting instead of whatever cannon fodder I'm getting now.

Still don't know what I'm going to do.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 11:36:50


TheGreatLeon
Level 61
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@Master Jz: What do you think should be the first 1-3 Legendaries? I would’ve said Bonus Money Boost, Hospital Boost, Merc Discount in some order but I’m curious on your late game perspective since I’m still wrapping up ascension 2.

@asdfgh: It’s still an 8%/16%/32% discount on a LOT of money, regardless of what nominal amount an unupgraded player would pay. I think this example illustrates the opposite to be honest, the “discount” from -72% to -74% feels good while the “boost” from +400% to +410% feels underwhelming.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 11:59:09

functor
Level 56
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Below are some artifacts to I would love to upgrade to legendary first, if I ever get enough epic artifacts to sacrifice.
* Craft Double
* Mercenary Discount
* Speedy Crafters
* Time Warp

Note that the effects of these 4 artifacts stack multiplicatively.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:08:57


krinid 
Level 62
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About Mercenary Discount. I have the Advancement max out and if I get the 4 techs it's 72% discount. The rare only brings that up to 74%. Considering I buy most of my mercs late I generally have at least 3 if not all 4 on larger levels. It just doesn't add much.

2 comments. Merc Discount to Epic might be good, but also raising Additional Mercs - this is actually a sort of Merc discount as well, b/c it gives you more mercs at each camp, including more of the cheap mercs for the first 10 or so merc camps. So you'll approach a point where you don't need army camps much at all to clear a level, just get what you need from mercs, caches, JS & hospitals, and eventually if you max it out, will be able to leave mercs in the expensive camps behind = less crafting time to get enough money to clear the level = faster clear time. I'm only @ 88% additional mercs now, but when I get it 150%, I suspect I'll be able to leave all the expensive mercs in the later pools, not upgrade hospitals as much = save money & time = buy more mercs = finish faster. As as Jz pointed out, finishing faster means getting less benefit from all Advancements and Artifacts that are time based like ACB, BMB, TMB, so need to focus on event driven buffs like buy mercs, caches, hospitals, speedy crafters, etc.

My last level before 2nd Ascension was Netherlands, and I had 62B drafting on it, army camps 23B, merc 373B, hospitals 417B (I pretty much maxed them all out), JS 193B. Heavy focus on mercs, and it's working out for me. Drafting earlier gets me that 60B draft and even still I thin it's too low, I did leave a lot remaining in the pool, I was still getting 2B drafts at the end of the level.

Also, if you're only buying @ end of level, you're missing out on opportunities, esp if you have Discount Mercs maxed out. You're missing the value of buying the cheap mercs early on and getting more bonuses/caches/crafters/recipes/etc = more money = faster clear. Also, more mercs bought = better drafts. If you end your level still getting massive drafts, it means you've left armies in the draft pool, and you could have moved those merc purchases earlier and got (just example #'s) 20-60B additional benefit from the draft pool.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:10:11


Z 
Level 63
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My first Legendary was ACB

I did it a few weeks before learning how powerful Crafting Speed was. Oh well
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:11:43


Shin
Level 59
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@functor

I am surprised about the fact that you said to upgrade time warp that you will upgrade to legendary since it's just 4 hours.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:25:07


TheGreatLeon
Level 61
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This might be a dumb question but does the Time Warp artifact cool itself down?

I think some of us are talking past each other because the “best artifact” (and best AP advancement for that matter) probably differs by stage. I think it’s possible that the best rare artifact is something like Army Camp Boost or Bonus Money Boost while AP advancements are still low. I think it’s simultaneously possible that the best legendary is something like Merc Discount or Hospital Boost and the best Insane is something like Army Cache Boost or Money Cache Boost.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:25:33


Shin
Level 59
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No, it does not.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:57:08


krinid 
Level 62
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@Shin/functor
No, TW doesn't cool itself down. So Legendary TW gets 4 hrs time skip followed by 16 hrs cooldown time. Presumably the strat would be to use Merc before/after TW activation/cooldown and equip SC & CD during the cooldown to craft while time skipping. But I personally don't think 4 hrs of benefit is worth 16 hrs of slot kill.

@graemes
Perhaps there is some difference on level, certainly early levels which don't have crafters get 0 benefit from Speedy Crafters. Even within a level, SC gets you nothing for first 5-10% where you don't have a crafter. But more importantly what we (me+Master Jz, maybe others) are saying is that as you play more the artifacts (and advancements) that give benefit over time reduce in value provided b/c you spend less time on each level. So take your example of Insane ACB ... my first run on Africa was 16 days, so lots of time to get use of such a benefit. My 2nd playthrough was only 4 days, so far less time to earn armies over, so even with a highly upgrade artifact or IACP advancement, the benefit they provide will likely be lower than what it was on the 1st playthrough.

In comparison, the benefit from Artifacts & Adv's that provide benefit per action such as Cache Money/Resource/Armies, JS, Hospitals, Mercs, Crafting, Ore buffs, etc, will continue to offer high benefit. Take Cache Money for example. It's a Phase 1 Adv and an Artifact as well. Putting resources into upgrading these will give the same benefit on playthrough 1 as playthrough 2, b/c the # of money available on the map is the same, the caches are the same, whereas TMB & BMB are dependent on that 4 day vs 16 day clear time.

So upgrading ACB to Rare and maybe even Epic, is likely very useful for 1st playthrough, maybe even somewhat useful for part of 2nd playthrough (notably early in the levels and the first 1-10 levels), but there will come a time when it'll not be your best artifact, and more benefit will come from Merc Disc, Speedy Crafter, Craft Double, Hospital Boost, Cache Boosts, Item Values, etc.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:57:26

functor
Level 56
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I think of Time Warp at legendary as 1.25x play speed.

The strategies and AP distributions of players are different. But, I do not think these strategies would require 3 fixed artifacts in artifact slots. Usually, we can allocate one slot to Time Warp. In this sense, Time Warp can enhance any strategies players may employ.

I think Time Warp is the overall best legendary artifact for all players. But, note that it should not be the first legendary to get. We only upgrade it to legendary when we already have a good set of legendary artifacts.

(The epic Quadruple Strike could be better than legendary Time Warp. But, I only discuss the artifacts worth upgrading to legendary here.)

Edit:
@krinid
Can you name 3 legendary artifacts that need to occupy slots almost all the time and still better than Time Warp at legendary? If we cannot find 3 such artifacts, then there is a slot available for Time Warp.

Edited 8/6/2021 13:00:53
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 12:59:33


Z 
Level 63
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Keep in mind, that 1.25x play speed comes at the price of another useful artifact, so the effect is diminished.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 13:04:22

functor
Level 56
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@Z

I just updated the post above yours.

> Keep in mind, that 1.25x play speed comes at the price of another useful artifact, so the effect is diminished.

We only need to pay the price if we can have 3 other artifacts that need slots and better than 1.25x play speed. I can find two: Speedy Crafters, Craft Double. But, I cannot find a third.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 13:24:28


krinid 
Level 62
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I think of Time Warp at legendary as 1.25x play speed.

Can you name 3 legendary artifacts that need to occupy slots almost all the time and still better than Time Warp at legendary? If we cannot find 3 such artifacts, then there is a slot available for Time Warp.


Interesting way to think of it ... and I suppose that's an accurate summary of the aggregate benefit. 4x speed for 4 hrs, then regular speed for 12 hrs, 1 slot killed in cooldown for the entire 16 hrs.

So Legendary 35% Speedy Crafters for sure, and if we're talking Legendary level, 12% Insane Craft Double might be a candidate, and then that really only leaves ACB 160%, TMB 400%, BMB 160%. Since we're talking Legendary levels, I'll assume this is post 1st Ascension, so ACB has reduced value b/c level clear times are faster, so I'll eliminate it from scope. So TMB 400%, BMB 160% ... the question is does the value these provide from Territory & Bonus income exceed that of 25% faster playing time.

Not sure ... would need to further look into this. Maybe one of our computation experts like Z, Jz or Functor can compute this. 25% faster playing means 25% more crafting items, which is by far the highest money producer, so this might actually be viable. Pretty exciting if it is viable!

@Z, functor, Master Jz
Opinions on this? Or are there other passive Leg artifacts beyond ACB, TMB, BMB, SC, CD that should be considered to compete with Leg TW?

Edited 8/6/2021 13:39:45
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 13:30:15


TheGreatLeon
Level 61
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@krinid: I meant stage of AP progression, not the specific level. There’s no confusion or disagreement here.

@functor: Another hidden cost to the Time Warp is that you can’t reinvest during the four hours. Not the end of the world but another reason why you won’t see a true 20% time savings.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 13:46:26


krinid 
Level 62
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Another hidden cost to the Time Warp is that you can’t reinvest during the four hours. Not the end of the world but another reason why you won’t see a true 20% time savings.

Not a huge deal - I often set things up to craft for 4-8 hrs at a time, so I can walk away, come back and have lots of $, or maybe just check in 4-5 hrs later for 2 secs just to reset idle time. Same thing would go for using TW. In fact, I do this already when I use a TW power, just it's more prep for 4 hrs vs 1. Part of the game.

The epic Quadruple Strike could be better than legendary Time Warp. But, I only discuss the artifacts worth upgrading to legendary here.

Agree, Quad Strike may have its purpose, as might Epic SAC (early level?) - but these are situational specific for a % of the level, and outside of that %, this discussion. Within the % of SAC/QS, even still TW _might_ have use ... save 4 hrs of cooldown time to free up for freeing up the slot again, and still using 1 of SC, TMB or BMB (probably BMB early level, SC mid to late level).
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 13:49:09

functor
Level 56
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@krinid

Epic Tripe Strike and Quadruple Strike are better than legendary Time Warp, as long as we have access to large territories on which we can apply TS/QS.

The only other possible contender I have in mind is legendary Market Raid. But, I do not know how its effect is calculated.

@graemes

You are right that we cannot reinvest in the 4 hour period. But, this is an idle game, and it requires a lot of waiting. My strategy usually requires me to wait 10+ hours to take any actions at all.

Another hidden benefit of Time Warp is reducing the digging time. I think this benefit is enough to offset the hidden cost.
Artifact Advice?: 8/6/2021 18:39:14


Master Jz 
Level 62
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@graemes
My current favorite is Speedy Crafters, followed by Item Values. I'd probably upgrade Item Values first. It loses some value as I get faster, but not as quickly because I still get items from caches. I also really like Hospital Discount, Mercenary Discount, and Hospital Boost. I'm currently toying with the idea of going for the Time Warp first, in order to speed up digs.

@krinid
I have an epic Efficient Crafters. I occasionally leave it, Craft Double, and Speedy Crafters equipped overnight. While rare, I've had occasions were an uncommon Craft Double actually beats a legendary Bonus Money Boost.
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