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Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/16/2021 04:38:39


PapaMarsh
Level 59
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Here is the link to sign the petition: http://chng.it/wqSpWHys

Warzone update 5.08 (Feb 1, 2021) added the following restriction to mapmaking: "If a new map has multiple bonuses that define the exact same territories, it will now notify you of this and let you fix it before submitting."

This disallows bonus links of many complex map styles (INSS, Landria, etc) from functioning. It also prevents any changes to existing maps that utilize these bonus structures.

[NOTE: The changelog is misleading in that it actually entirely prevents making maps that have duplicate bonuses rather than "notifying you of this" like it says.]

The most critical issues are the following:

Bonuses cannot be linked in chat. This is especially detrimental for team games.
Bonuses cannot be clicked/tapped to see which territories are included.
Bonus names are irrelevant, since they cannot be selected anyway.

The most obvious solution to this problem is to follow the verbiage of the changelog and set this up as a warning instead of an error. This would give less experienced map makers a heads up on a potential mistake while still allowing veteran map makers the opportunity to take advantage of more creative map styles.
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/16/2021 09:27:56


alexclusive 
Level 64
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Very important petition, INSS is the best thing this game offers through my eyes!
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/16/2021 23:31:49


{TLA} LND
Level 60
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Please fix it, Fizzer!
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/16/2021 23:36:21


Shrek
Level 54
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DO IT
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/16/2021 23:47:56

Bobby 
Level 60
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Why fizzer? Why?

I won't sign the petition since it calls for my last name. But I support the cause.
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/16/2021 23:53:52


JK_3 
Level 61
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You dont need to fill in your actual name to sign it, just fill in

Bobby
randomLastNameThatWontShowUpUnlessYouCommentAndIsWayTooLong
youremail@domain.com
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/17/2021 02:41:20

Nikitan 
Level 60
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Fix this!
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/17/2021 10:41:09


Roi Joleil
Level 60
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at this point its just frustrating how disconected Fizzer is with the Strat community. I just cant understand how as a game creator you can piss on the same group so many times.
Not to mention that practically any relevant contribution to the site is made from the strat community. Its insane.
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/17/2021 10:52:53


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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My first name is: lets
my last name is: fight

that shoukd be ok?
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/17/2021 16:20:39


AJ Chiller 
Level 61
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@lets fight,

did the same and it worked
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/18/2021 09:49:55


Brak😡 
Level 61
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Duplicate bonuses are now allowed again. It will still display the dupe when you click "Validate", however it won't block you from making the map testing or public. Fizzer 3/17/2021


Well done. Anyway, optimizations for Idle & casual gamers may break other things in the future.
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/18/2021 10:10:43


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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ye, I also see in the comments this ones :)

l4v r0v
allusernamesare taken12

Edited 3/18/2021 10:11:32
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/19/2021 09:51:07


Brak😡 
Level 61
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oh, now i see one of the reasons - nice map, PapaMarsh!
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/22/2021 07:00:28


KoЯni
Level 60
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I have signed.
<3
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/22/2021 07:01:28


KoЯni
Level 60
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I have signed.
<3
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/22/2021 19:58:47


Scrooge McDuck
Level 61
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at this point its just frustrating how disconected Fizzer is with the Strat community. I just cant understand how as a game creator you can piss on the same group so many times.
Not to mention that practically any relevant contribution to the site is made from the strat community. Its insane.


using map created by the community for another games for example.. if this game has grown so much it is thanks to a very close-knit community in my opinion, which strategic players are .. it's sad to be ignored like this
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/23/2021 04:26:19


OvertForeigner
Level 56
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Yeah I have the feeling that fizzer only cares about idle and completely ignores the strat community. Also why make two games that are polar opposites under the same name, website, same forums, maps, ui, and on browser you can literally just switch to idle by clicking a button? that's just gonna confuse new players and could have been avoided by making a clearly separate game... I'm not against fizzer making an idle game but I don't like the idea of putting them together and trying to make a community of strategic players that has been evolving since like 12 years do a 180-degree turn because of that other not-completely-separate game.

Edited 3/23/2021 04:29:55
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/23/2021 04:46:39


l5v.r1v
Level 38
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Pre-Script: read till the end. I'm not simping for Fizzer. I just think we can safely assume good faith and work from that instead of thinking Fizzer doesn't care about us. There's a lot more and better things we can do if we begin from the assumption that Fizzer cares a whole lot about the indie game he's spent the better part of his career building and maintaining.

I think there's still a range of plausible interpretations of these events that assume good faith from Fizzer. Heck, I view the INSSpocalypse as a good sign because it aligns with Hanlon's Razor: instead of the strategic community not being a priority for Fizzer, we saw that the misgivings between the two were just miscommunications and misunderstandings. I suspect Fizzer cares a whole lot about Warzone (including Warzone Classic) but there's just a disconnect between him and the frustrated side of the strategic community.

He made this game, after all, and per his statement on stream he lives on a budget to do this. Given his background and the fact that he's successfully singlehandedly built and maintained an indie game site (that's aggressively free-to-play) for 10+ years at this point, he likely has the competence to be making bank working at some big tech company or living off of shares from some unicorn he worked on; I'm pretty sure a software engineer with 15+ years of experience makes at least $220k/yr even at Microsoft. He could also pull an EA or a Hasbro and make this game less free-to-play (or more pay-to-win). Every other game that competes with Warzone is considerably less free-to-play. Risk: Global Domination, the Hasbro-licensed one (and the only game in the Risk-like subgenre with a larger playerbase than Warzone) paywalls multiplayer behind tokens or a one-time premium purchase, and it makes you pay for maps. The other indie ones- Conquer Club, Dominating 12, LandGrab, Major Command, etc.- also lock things behind paywalls that we take for granted on Warzone- like real-time games, a non-Flash client, and maps.

Warzone is absurdly free-to-play. Except for Super Army Camps, every single purchasable item on this site can be unlocked without ever spending a single real cent, because you can get free coins and earn them from games. No other game in the subgenre goes this extreme.

So imo he's sacrificing at least a boatload of money to be doing what he's doing. I think it's safe to say he cares a whole lot and does his best.
why make two games that are polar opposites under the same name, website, same forums, maps, ui, and on browser you can literally just switch to idle by clicking a button?
Most likely revenue. Per his statement on Discord, the choice was either to create Idle or to make Warzone itself pay-to-win.

I don't know what that choice could imply except the need to boost revenue. He did say in the very first Idle stream that it was alarming how dependent Warzone revenue was on ads. So it could be a fragile revenue stream like that, or an actual decline in revenue. Pure speculation here. But Idle is clearly a cash cow.

And after making Idle, he came back and launched a major feature for Classic (Clan Wars). He lurks on Global Chat and on Discord. I think he cares a whole lot about this game and its community. If you read the blog posts and the app descriptions, he brags about player initiatives like Clan League.
But of course, like this incident reveals, good intentions != good results. Good intentions are not enough. We should assume good intentions from Fizzer and be pragmatic.

There's clearly some communication gaps and challenges involved in the strategic community getting what it wants from Fizzer. We make all sorts of assumptions as to why (e.g., that Fizzer doesn't care about us, that he cares about money, that he cares about casuals) but we don't really validate them before acting on them.

My suspicion is that Fizzer does try to reach out and listen- he made the CLOT framework, he open-sourced the AI, he streams and answers questions, he listened to the INSS petition, and heck, one time I emailed him asking for an API change and he did it within hours. But what's happening is that the information he gets from the strategic community is noisy and often poor feedback. Instead of telling Fizzer about our experience (what we liked, what could be better), we jump the gun and start proposing features or making decisions for him. Or throwing a bunch of stuff at him that creates a prioritization burden.

I think we should really come up with a plan as a strategic community to improve the quality of our communication with Fizzer. If he doesn't care about us, then that's not actionable. But if we assume he does, we can use that as a starting point to proactively fix the gaps between us.

Edited 3/23/2021 04:50:27
Petition to un-break INSS, Landria, etc style maps: 3/23/2021 10:23:04

Jo Jo
Level 64
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nice post from l5v. fully agree, but i still signed the petition, since I don't understand the point in reducing map-making features.
Once again thanks fizzer for everything you r doing,
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