Just do what's logical to you. You're doing great. Don't listen to pissants like Bonsai whose every post is a complaint.

Its a good point, @daftpunk. But I don't think FUDEW used any tactics to see before line up and then take decisions about their team. Maybe they are only a bit lazy :d

But yes, this situation is not the best for managing clan league's stuff. All clan managers haves to think a bit that Cowboy haves to much work to do and we only haves to respect the dates, nothing more.

it doesn't hurt anyone or anything to let them in. Why not let them in? They would not disrupt schedule.

It is Christmas, season of giving!

yes, Cowboy does do a lot of work and I am very grateful for it, and I understand if he doesn't want to let them in. I respect your decision either way

Edited 12/26/2019 12:51:37

The clan league panel is waiting to overrule whatever decision Cowboy makes.

It's a game with rules but it's a game they love and we love to play. Allowing them to play will be the best thing. From the last division.

Did they do it on purpose? Did they ever gave us such an impression?
We could throw the responsibility to the clan leaders of the last division and tell them vote if you want them to take part.
But this is a decision the clan league manager should take.
You either uphold the rules as they are or you send a message that the rules will bend as I see feet.
For me the second is the best, in the end next season all against you can ask to be removed and do all this hard work you and the panels are doing.

Let the guys play and keep up the good work!!!!
Merry christmas!!!!

The clan league panel is waiting to overrule whatever decision Cowboy makes.

I've contacted the audit panel already.
They're on standby to nullify the decision of the clan league panel.

To be fair, Cowboy did not notify clan leaders the league was getting under way. In the past Warzone mail was sent and also a chat game created. This happened for many years, then was dropped sometime recently. So like myself, I suspect they just don't frequent the forums. We are just fortunate that Reza and Super do, or we would have been in the same boat.

That's not true. With about a week left of signups to go I pmed every clan who might play that didn't sign up from VS to PG.

Beyond that I have allowed 2 late additions past the signup marker. (TLA and Vikinger)

I also pmed both contacts for not only BR, but Celtica and other clans as well.

Checkmqte and Farah also did the same.

Edited 12/26/2019 15:19:39

@Viking because line ups have been revealed. This is my point. Prior to this, deadlines can be moved with no direct implication or possible advantage. FUDEW, could (I'm not saying they have or would) now adapt their line up by putting stronger players in what is a perceived weaker tournament.

Allowing them to play sets a precedent going forward that's my main concern. If they play or don't is neither here nor there for me directly. That's a decision for the panel and we should all accept that decision.

Cowboy is doing a stellar job, and his communication has been fine. FUDEW chose to ignore his frequent messages hence the situation.

@daftpunk, yes, I understand your point.

In my opinion, if they did not even rly see the mail or respond or post in this forum for quite sometime until a few days ago, I doubt they have looked at line-ups. And if they put stronger players in a weaker tourney, so be it. The weaker players would then most likely play on the stronger other clans tourneys.

I see no reason the panel can't let them play, but as like you said, the decision is fully up to the panel and I respect the decision either way.

Either way of the decision, FUDEW did not "choose to ignore" Cowboy's messages. They must have saw them if they knew the rosters and line-ups were due soon and they were overdue.

TIO, the person currently putting things together for them was neither the primary or secondary contact btw. Which makes me want to be a bit more lenient, because it wasn't his fault. He was asked in a game why BR wasn't playing, and had no clue that their managers hadn't gotten it all together.

A few things.

First, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun. It's more fun if people get to play than if they don't.

Second, the deadlines were right around Christmas. Many people don't check WL as much around the holidays, so it's easy to miss deadlines.

Third, this isn't necessarily a play/don't play dichotomy. Cowboy could allow them to play but with a points deduction if people believe they got an advantage by submitting a lineup after other teams had public lineups.

Fourth, CL is run for free by volunteers. If people are making things more difficult for the organizers, the organizers are under no obligation to accommodate them or let them play.

I mostly agree with Beren's points and wanted to add my own.

1) On rules being determined ahead of time versus rulings made on the fly. Any leadership position should do the best to anticipate situations, but then adjust things when new situations show up. I think Cowboy has done a good job of balancing these two things, and he does all of this just because he wants to.

2) On Fudew being allowed to play. Personally I'd be ok with either ruling and would if my clan was playing in D. Deadlines are deadlines, and missing them should be able to disqualify a clan. That said whoever sets the deadline has the ability to apply leniency at their discretion.

3) On gaming lineups. Yes this makes a big difference. That said I'm not certain a clan that is disorganized enough to miss a deadline is organized enough to game theory a lineup.

I will start off by saying that if I was the one making the decision, I would allow this clan to play, for reasons given above that I find no need to repeat. However, I think we should avoid bashing players like Bonsai and co. who raise their concerns in a relatively respectful manner. While the decision is ultimately up to (Cowboy/Clan League Panel/Audit Panel/Ethics Panel/whoever gets the last override), I think that it is important that we appreciate these other perspectives and avoid trying to silence them in favor of the prevailing opinion.

You've got two options here. Be autocratic or democratic.

Autocratic = Let Cowboy make the move. He has the most information and insights to this issue then all of us so you could trust him to make a judgement with the governmental departments of the audit/ethics panel. To "keep him in check".

Democratic = Cowboy gets the Division leaders, outlines the situation in a neutral way that simply illustrates the facts and situations. Conduct a vote, let the leaders of the competitive clans decide on the following.

1. Let Fudew Play
2. Let Fudew Play but sacrifice one of their slots for a 0-6 loss on a 1v1. (-18 points, +3 for everyone else).
3. Don't Let Fudew Play at all.

I think the most probable outcome regardless if it's autocratic/democratic is that Fudew is allowed to play with no consequences because I don't think they're a serious clan that would push it this far to get some secret advantage in Division C/D/E... It's a bit hard to believe.

I stand corrected Cowboy. Sounds like you did strong work checking.

I am comfortable with whatever he decides and won't complain.

Another option is poll the clans in that division.

(These are my opinions and not necessarily the CL Panel's)

First, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun. It's more fun if people get to play than if they don't.

While I agree, there were clear deadlines set. Wanting to compete in a league comes with a very small responsibility of being able to communicate a roster and a lineup. This is a very minimal requirement which they failed to meet.

Second, the deadlines were right around Christmas. Many people don't check WL as much around the holidays, so it's easy to miss deadlines.

The deadlines were around Christmas, yes. But, the actual deadline being around this time doesn't mean this was the only time to submit anything. They've had a rather large timeframe to submit it. They've also been contacted and have chosen to ignore our messages.

Third, this isn't necessarily a play/don't play dichotomy. Cowboy could allow them to play but with a points deduction if people believe they got an advantage by submitting a lineup after other teams had public lineups.

This is correct and I agree. I think we need to consider what kind of precedent it will set. Allowing them to play without any penalty may seem fine in this specific case (and I would agree if this was on a case to case basis), but we have to consider the consequences of our decision, as people will always grab onto past decisions to pressure a future decision be pushed into their advantage.

Fourth, CL is run for free by volunteers. If people are making things more difficult for the organizers, the organizers are under no obligation to accommodate them or let them play.

While true, the converse is also true. If a clan breaks a rule and it's easier to ignore that for the organization, it sets a bad precedent.

All in all, I would like BR Fudew to be able to participate, but it would not be without at least a penalty as they broke a rule and clearly ignored messages from the organization. If they really wanted to play and compete, they should've read the rules and our messages. It's like the Terms of Service nobody reads but still agrees to. If they still want to play, they should be given a penalty for disobeying said ToS and it'll be Cowboy having to accommodate them even playing.

Edited 12/26/2019 23:53:08

The CL Panel taking over the template pruning process was setting a bad precedent, but that didn't seem to worry you at the time.

Cowboy I thank you very much for the opportunity to attend your event, for your commitment to help us and also for the notice to register.

Wow! I really am very sad and frustrated to see so much lie about our clan and clan leaders ...
That was very childish.

It is my first contact with this league event and I am obliged to witness this type of slander.

It's too lazy to argue.
But I will just leave a few points for reflection.

1- We must first have union and fun.
I play warzone a little over a year ago.
If I wanted competition I wouldn't be here.

2- Our clan has over 50 players and unfortunately only 6 were able to participate.
The rest did not enter because they did not have time to dedicate themselves to the event.
Really everyone knows that in Brazil things are complicated.

3- They called us cheaters without having to prove it.
Slanderers should be expelled from the event.
To err is human, so this first time I will forgive.
If it occurs again, I will forward via report and request action for the ADM of the game.

4- About winners and losers ...
I don't care about losing or winning.
I am neither the best nor the worst.

I used duel maps to release level 60 so I could create matches with everything you could use in the game.
Does that make me a cheater?
Answer: No!
I say that makes me "Uncle END".
Uncle who creates various types of games, events and different tournaments to entertain people more and more.

I create events for players from my clan and also for external players who speak Portuguese.
What I like most is having fun with people.

Let's stop this childishness, because we are not politicians to debate for such insignificant issues.

A big hug from "Uncle End" to all.
A wonderful new year with peace, health and prosperity.

Note: Text translated by google. Sorry for any errors.

@tio

It has less to do with the fact that you're cheating, and more to the fact, something like this could be used to cheat.

Clans can use lineups already given by others to match make and gain an unfair advantage.