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Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/10/2019 23:22:00


Lightning
Level 57
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Im looking for a person or a clan that might help me overcome a plateau of being a noob, is there a clan where people usually play training games?
I was in 101st but I received some help only in the beggining later on I was left again just like before I joined them.
If anyone is offering some help I would really appreciate it. Feel free to post if you have any suggestions in which way should I look towards in the future. Thank you.

Edited 7/11/2019 13:40:09
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/10/2019 23:29:16


Cowboy 
Level 60
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From my experience in 101st, you only recieve help if you actively look for it. Active training in the clan (without requesting help) may have been more common when I was there. But most people are too busy to do this, so you have to help yourself as well.

Edited 7/10/2019 23:43:26
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 00:43:16


Joi179 
Level 59
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The reason you get no help is because you dont accept it. You keep saying how trash you are and once someone asks you for some games you just pretend like they arent there.
When someone wants to review a game you reply "oh i dont want it to be reviewed, i just want to show how trash i am"
When someone talks to you you dont listen.

Might wanna search for the problem at yourself first.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 00:47:16


Lightning
Level 57
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Joi thats the truth for today, what about the other ~100 days I was in the clan? And all the promises from the beggining before I joined?
I can post all that stuff in pictures if you want... Also I wouldnt promiss something I cannot 100% fulfill... And talk fairy tales and stuff but in reality its much different.

Edited 7/11/2019 00:49:24
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 00:58:55


King C******* V 
Level 58
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You just need to pick Australia. You'll have more success that way.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 02:11:08


Frozen Koala
Level 57
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(I don't know what the full situation is.)

Its pretty rare to get unsolicited help from others, especially in full games. If you pm around you can often find people willing to play some games on templates with you. Better if they are also interested in the same templates.

Your best chance is to just try talking and inviting higher skill players to games. You'll look more motivated and its easier for them if you are the one making the games. Likewise, if you are asking for help with game analysis/such, it'll definitely make a better impression if you ask specific questions or analyzed the game first to some extent. Even some ladder players can be willing to talk over a game a little.

I've floated around a lot of games and communities. Its actually really rare to sustained efforts led the teachers. Its much more common to be student driven, with a bribe of junk food thrown in. :P
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 05:15:42


Lernaean
Level 34
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I also don't know anything about your situation. But Joi179 just gave you some honest advice. Then you immediately threw it back at him. Kinda proves his point right?

But besides that maybe you have a methodological problem? In my experience you won't find someone in any clan who is willing to teach you like an instructor in repeated games. But clans offer a friendly environment where you can play quality players, and talk strategy before, during, and after games. Maybe just play more within your clan, while talking strategy with your opponent and teammates? I see plenty of game requests on the discord.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 05:22:26


DanWL 
Level 62
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I’m willing to give advice/feedback/reviews if you PM me as long as you make it clear what you want to do better.
I know I’m not the best, but I’ll be able to get you to an above average standard.

Edit:
You could ask Phack Guan if he’s ever going to restart Warlight Training School.

Edited 7/11/2019 05:26:41
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 06:38:31


Guy Incognito
Level 57
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I heard that Blitz is recruiting.

Edit:
101st works great if youre a hungry player that wants to learn. I learnt a lot in 101st and wouldve stayed there if it wasnt for a personal need of a change.

Actively looking to improve is the first and most important step towards improving, talking shit in the forums is not.

Edited 7/11/2019 08:34:57
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 06:47:50


Farah♦ 
Level 60
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You're not gonna find a clan that offers more training and help than 101st.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 06:57:18


Norman 
Level 58
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@Lightning:

As a matter of coincidence we just talked about a game of yours in our clan forums:

--------------------
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=19076262

Here a game which shows some of my points between a 101st player and a guy who happens to have the same country flag as Mylo.

- Look at the pressure from yellow turn 1. He had to hit the Scandinavian Peninsula because he messed up his order picking there.
- Furthermore the guy from Mylos country took my advice and just placed his first pick in Southeast Asia while his opponent went for the classic 3+4+5 counter. His opponent says something about him not being a good strategic player however I kinda disagree. He plays by the book, however they don't teach you the M'Hunters style during driving lessons.

About the guy from Mylos country I don't like the way he fought too much. He should have aimed to get a good hit at his opponent during some of his turns in Southeast Asia and then this slow expansion in America by opportunistically taking territories which didn't actually helped him to complete the bonus any time sooner also was pretty bad.
---------

As context, we talked about this game because your opponent there took my advice to just put a single first pick in a counterable first turn bonus and then call it a day. Furthermore I like to see WarLight as a "game of pressure". Since you preferred the Greenland pick over the Scandinavian Peninsula pick, you had the pressure to hit there strong in order to not lose the game. There were quite some other mistakes going on in this game, however I actually only posted the game since I wanted to prove my point that it's usually not a great idea to counter a counterable first turn bonus with your picks 3-5.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 07:54:13


Sakata Gintoki
Level 58
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Edit:
You could ask Phack Guan if he’s ever going to restart Warlight Training School.


*Phakh Gokhn :) .
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 08:13:04


krunx 
Level 63
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I will make a short statement, allthough the risk is high to fall for a troll or a faking account, as I see no real reason creating a thread in order to announce leaving a clan.

Like Cowyboy, Joi, Frozen Koala and Lernaean pointed out already, you usally have to ask in order to receive advice from others. And you can receive a ton, if you really want in 101st. That's exactly the point where it failed in 101st in additon with your mind-set (see Joi's post) not beeing helpful in order to motivate anyone spending time to train you.

Best of luck with your next clan(s). I hope they are a better fit to your mind-set than 101st was.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 18:36:47


Lightning
Level 57
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@krunx Okay, thank you very much for wishing me luck. I also wish you and fellow members of Lynx and Eagles all the best.
@DanWL I will talk with Phakh Gokhn to see.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 19:46:58


LeBorgne 
Level 56
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I'm very interested in starting a training clan. Maybe even starting one. Using formal training methods, including instructional design, training scenarios with educational objectives, etc.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 20:26:30


Buns157 
Level 68
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PS already has dozens of helpful videos.

All the content is out there to learn how to improve. You don’t need someone holding your hand.

Just play games against decent players, and if they wipe the floor with you then ask them how you sucked
- downvoted post by Rikku
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 20:58:31


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 62
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Lightning, what's stopping you from thinking harder in your game? You can watch game history and think hard why certain moves were done. Your objective is to get sustainable net income gain (more income than opponent + more armies killed). Look for positions which you can easily defend and try to look for regions where opponent might start. Calculate income per territory ratio for bonuses how much armies will die while taking them and on what turn you'll make profit from bonus, calculate your max income in 2, 3, 4 or more upcoming turns. Avoid splitting up your efforts and try to make concentrated attacks. Be more offensive than defensive. Try to have less picks in same region than your opponent (1 pick is often enough to stall 2-3+ opponent's picks). Think what are the best positions/moves for your opponent at the moment (once game begins). Learn how move orders work and how much you need to delay to succeed. Learn to use deploy orders to predict opponent's income. Calculate the cost of expansion (card gain) and whether you should or shouldn't expand. Defensive kill rate is 70% if you kill whole stack, it's 100% killed, which is 30% net army gain, sometimes it's better to go and hunt down opponent's stacks.

I could keep going, if you want to.

I believe if you're smart, you should be able to learn to play well by yourself. If you can't become good, it means that you either have low intellect and are destined to mediocrity or are lazy and unwilling to critically analyse yourself. You're are the one who needs to become good, it's your job not someone else's, if you're not willing to put hard effort yourself, nobody will be able to help you. Stop pretending and start thinking! I got my skills by analysing games on my own, I would always check history and think what went wrong and what new things I could try out, you could try the same.

I'm currently occupied with other activities, you can try inviting me to a game to see how I at 0% effort would fare against you. Or you could enlist yourself for Warzone Ultimate Series tournaments, you might get a few reviews from that.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 21:17:34


Lightning
Level 57
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Well Phakh, the biggest problem is I dont know how to count opponents income or predict atleast. Thats the thing that bothers me the most. Also when I get on two fronts its hard to predict. I always defend where its logically better where my bonus is endangered. But so far your post was the one thats most helpful. But we can talk about theory whole day whole night, but in practice is the only way where you can express this and where it counts afterall. But playing weak players like I did, doesnt bring any good and after when you face a good player, your bad habits that work against weak players fall into water... And then its a big dissapointment for me...

Edited 7/11/2019 23:08:46
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/11/2019 23:41:43


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 62
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Things you need to know to predict income:

  • Is 1 army stand guard on? If yes territory takeover cost immediately is increased by 1.
  • Defensive kill rate and neutral amount. On base settings, 2 neutrals kill 1 army.
  • Add above 2 points to calculate territory takeover cost. On base settings, taking 1 territory costs 2 armies.
  • Calculate how many armies you need to kill neutral territory. My preferred method is (Army_Count-0.5)/Offensive_Killrate and result is always rounded up. Result - cost = how many leftover there will be. -0.5 is used because it's enough to kill 1.5 armies to kill 2 armies, because result is rounded up. And final result is always rounded up, because it's bare minimum and real army counts can only be whole numbers.
  • Calculate how many leftovers there will be after taking territory, normally it's 3 attacking armies - 2 army cost = 1 leftover. This can left you to predict opponent's delaying/further deploys.
  • First wave attack requires full attack value, subsequent attacks require (cost value) deploys. If 4 territories are taken in one go, they will require 4*3=12 armies, if they're taken in 2 turns, they will require 2*3+2*2=10 armies.
  • Check with how many armies each territory starts. Default value is 4 (3 after deducting 1 army for army stand guard). Let's say base income is used 100% on that territory, then it becomes 9 movable armies. Cost is 2 armies per territory, so with 1 turn deploy the stack gets 9/2=4 taken territory potential + 1 spare army. If that stack would want to get 2 territories on last go, it would need 10 armies (10 armies/ 2 cost = 5 territories -> 4 territories + 2 spare armies). Because cost is 2, each territory equals 2 spare armies and spare armies equal how many territories would be taken on last turn. If spare army count is 0, it means you can't take that amount of territories (applies to basis settings, things like ~100% offensive kill rate, 0 army neutral or no army guard might change the situation). If settings are non standard and for some reason after attack there are 2+ leftovers you need to divide spare army count from leftover amount.
  • If army amount ends with 2, 6 or 9 digits, it means it's inefficient defence (for 70% kill rate). 11 armies kills as much as 12 during defence, amounts match for numbers like 105 and 106 or 48 and 49. If you tap 12 with 1, it becomes 11 and because both kill same amount of armies your 1 army tap did not change army cost the resulting neutral stack, therefore it means the cost for taking territory increased by 1. Tapping neutral all the way from 5 to 2 or from 8 to 6 or from 11 to 9 reduce the cost by 1 with each tap so tapping could prove to be beneficial. For example 5 neutrals require 8 attacking armies, but if 3 taps are applied, it will require 3+3(taps)=6 attacking armies. If 3 neutral is tapped once, it can be taken with a total of 4 involved armies. Each tap can be used as a delay move, which can often prove to be helpful.
  • Bigger neutrals need to be taken first. Let's say there are 2 army and 4 army neutrals. If 2 army neutral is taken first: at least 3 deployed armies would lead to 1 army leftover, which would require +5 army deploy and would lead to 2 leftovers and total of 8 deployed armies. If 4 army neutral is taken 1st, you would need up to 6 army deploy which would leave to 2 leftovers which would require +1 army deploy and would lead to 1 leftover army and total of 7 deployed armies. Going for bigger neutrals first is cheaper long term.
  • If spare armies after taking bonus combine to at least 3 (base settings) in 2+ turns opponent can combine them and do safe 100% defence (probably offence) and not risk failing to take territory for card pieces.
  • Not all income amounts are possible. If on Medium Earth (no +1 or +2 bonuses) you see +7 income deploy (+5 base income), immediately assume opponent to have at least +8 income.
  • Deploy orders work like A B B A A B B A A ... If you see check deploy history and see A B A A A B , it means that there were at least 3 hidden deploys A X B A X X A A B which is at least 3 extra income.
  • I already said that, but on standard settings 2 army neutral requires 3 armies and leaves 1 leftover. If opponent is making risky attacks which you could block and prevent him from getting card pieces, assume +2 deploy happening somewhere.
  • If bonus is not claimed it will have 4 army wasteland most likely, starting bonus is likely X territories for X income or 1 income per territory ratio in other words, so opponent will be trying to take them. Because starting bonus is very efficient, it makes sense to grab some high income bonuses.
  • Most likely scenarios to get income: +8 on 1st turn (first turn bonus, 3 territories taken with 6 army total cost and 3+ turns for profit), +11 on 2nd turn (two +3 income bonuses with 2 leftovers used in process and full base income deployed; 6 territories taken 12 income cost 4 turns for profit (because needs extra turn to be taken)), +12 on 2nd turn (+3 and +4 bonus with 2 left overs used and 1 bonus taken with 2 picks, also full used base income; 7 taken territories, 14 army cost, ~4 turn payback), +10 income on 2nd turn (5 income bonus, full base income; 5 taken territories, 10 army cost, 4 turns profit payback).
  • +8 on 1st turn bonus uses 2 starting territories, 3rd starting territory takes 1 territory and has 1 leftover. If +8 is used 3 additional territories can be taken in the 3rd starting bonus, so on 3rd bonus can be chosen to be 5 territory bonus.
  • +11 on 2nd turn leaves 3rd pick somewhere, in 3rd pick a territory is taken and there's one army leftover. +11 can be used to take 4 territories, therefore 3rd pick can be made in 6 territory bonus.
  • +12 on 2nd turn can have problems with taking 3rd bonus on 3rd turn.
  • Importance of momentum. On 1st turn you take +3 bonus, on next turn opponent takes +4 bonus. You would start at 6 lost armies, opponent would start at 8 lost armies and net income change would be -1 for you or +1 for opponent. This is how lost armies would compare for few turns: -6 Vs X; -3 Vs -8; 0 Vs -4; 3 Vs 0; 6 Vs 4; 9 Vs 8; 12 Vs 12. Net gained income would look like this +3 (you have bonus while opponent still doesn't have bonus); +2; +1; 0. So basically because you completed smaller bonus quicker, you get 3 turns of advantage during which you can complete another bonus quicker and keep your advantage going for long time, or alternatively you can use extra gained armies to get closer to opponent and bring combat to his doorstep. Because of all this, strong opponent will keep up momentum in his early expansion.
  • Breaking bonus Vs expansion: Expansion is X income cost for many territories, you'll need to wait to get profit. Breaking bonus is only 1 territory, 100% of opponent's stack killed (70% killed in return), immediate profit. So you probably can see which is usually more valuable.
  • Map has got regions which are separated by bottlenecks or bonuses with wastelands, prominent regions need attention (for example Antarctica+Australia, Africa, North America and most importantly Eurasia on Medium Earth). Ignoring big regions might mean a lot of safe expansion for opponent.
  • Calculate how much income opponent could have deployed up to the point you met. He's probably been going for +8 on 1st turn or +10/+11/+12 on 2nd turn. I've already talked about these scenarios. If by the time you complete your bonus opponent is not around, assume he went for best available bonus combination and go to counter him. Successful counter requires you to challenger bonus(es) in 2+ different areas, if you can challenge 2+ territories from 1 territory, getting that one territory should be a priority.
  • Ask important questions, can opponent take my full bonus in 1 turn? Can I take opponents (or retake my) bonus in 1 turn. Is it easy to make 1st scenario disappear and 2nd scenario appear? Opponents might prioritize defending/attacking unbroken bonuses and forget broken bonuses or they might split their efforts equally and risk to fail against concentrated efforts.
  • If your small bonus borders opponent's big bonus and there are multiple attack options, be aggressive. If you lose 3 income and break opponent's 4 income bonus, that's 1 income net gain for you, because your lose were smaller and also you had to spend less armies while taking your bonus.
  • If both bonuses are equal in value and you can be attacked in more than 1 way, try to exchange bonuses, you both lose same amount of income, but opponent probably won't be able to immediately fully take your bonus and you'll just have 1 territory to defend in that region. If you don't try to break opponent's bonus in a stalemate, he might succeed in breaking your bonus which is income gain for him, so it's best to go for exchanges.
  • I've talked about territory cost. Once you start tracking opponent's income, see all unaccounted income, if it adds up to 10 (4 army wasteland costs 4 armies and 2 army neutral costs 2 armies), it's likely opponent just added +3 income at the point of unaccounted armies hitting 10 army mark.
  • If there are any previous games of opponent available, check their history to predict opponent's moves. If opponent has some of your recent games available, try to change your strategy a bit.
  • Avoid opening up weaknesses in your picks, look for ways to usefully use your bonus besides its income (map positions for expansion or access to opponent's countering). Don't bother too much about stalemates (1 equal size broken bonus for another or 1 stalled starting picks for another) they're zero sum game and not really a danger.


Looks like I'm hitting the character limit so these will be all my tips for now.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/12/2019 03:38:14


LeBorgne 
Level 56
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These are insightful tips, Phakh Gokhn and others. Thank you.

The only problem by learning strictly through experience, is that it can take a lot of time and frustration. Looking at player guides and lists of hint, tips, and tricks can be helpful, but sometimes there's no context for the hints. Learning the skills needed to become competitive is more efficiently learned in a structured environment, in combination with playing against players who will tell you what's going on. And there IS a structured training environment here: The single player game scenarios, starting with the Tutorial, Time to Take a Risk, etc.

Yeah, I know, it's playing against the AI, with all its limitations. But these games are quite cleverly designed/sequenced, for players to learn the game, and its features. Each scenario has at least one salient objective, and the sequence encourages players to use sills learned in earlier scenarios. Further, the "gold star" gives players something greater to strive for, although they can be frustrating to try to achieve; by accomplishing the gold star objectives, players learn more in-depth nuances. These scenarios could be better, though, in helping new players learn.

I expect to start my new clan soon, based on Warzone education. Real life issues might interfere with my timeline. Anyone interested in participating is welcome to PM me, please let me know the specifics of your interests.

There are many other tools here and elsewhere to learn this game, lots of advice, although some of it is mistaken, in my humble opinion. Most people here seem to be civil, willing to help a player out, but you will always find unhelpful jerks everywhere.

@Buns157, could you please identify "PS" in your statement, "PS already has dozens of helpful videos."? Thnx.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/12/2019 07:36:52


Buns157 
Level 68
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His YouTube is filled with videos, and I’m not sure how to filter for just warlight ones. So put ‘warlight wgl youtube’ into google and you get to the videos I’m referring to.

It’s not in the format you are looking to make videos, but all the info is there if you skip the parts about his rabbit.

This guy https://www.warzone.com/profile?p=486201411
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/12/2019 13:21:41


Cowboy 
Level 60
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You can also check the MDL for reviews if specific templates
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/12/2019 23:30:51


Lightning
Level 57
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Thanks everyone, I'll try to check this all out and try to incorporate to my gameplay. Slowly step by step and see if it will work out towards better...
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/12/2019 23:39:55


Frozen Koala
Level 57
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If the quality of the opponent is an issue, you might want to rejoin the 1v1 ladder and grab several games. Some buddies might be able to help you analyze games from there, since that's the most commonly played template. You can probably figure out the early mistakes that snowball into a losing game down the road, it might get harder to figure out stuff in the midgame.

You might also give the multiday ladder a shot as well, if you haven't already. In terms of practicing analysis, its probably better to go back to the 1v1 ladder first. You won't spend as much time trying other template settings.

If you're willing to put in the time, you can use custom scenarios to make educated guesses about what your opponent might have taken. Then you don't have to keep track of all the details in your head.
Looking for help since I didnt receive one in 101.: 7/17/2019 17:39:57


Lightning McQueen
Level 55
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Join 100. The best clan on WZ.
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