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Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 18:47:37


NoName 2.1
Level 57
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I was to ask the same thing :o thanks @Math Wolf

We need things like this to prepare our team for next edition of clan league
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:09:45


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Preliminary schedule:
  • Sunday April 28: I'll draw the clans that can decide the templates for the first cycle. All clans that have confirmed that they will join before this time are part of the draw. If there are still only 5 clans, the 6th template will be the 1v1 or 2v2 ladder template.
  • Saturday May 4: Deadline for choosing the templates. However, templates will be posted as soon as they are decided, so some may be posted earlier already.
  • Wednesday May 15: Tournament creation (cycle 1), implicitly also the roster/lineup deadline. (see comment below for clarification)

  • ~end of May: draw of clans who can decide templates for cycle 2.
  • ~ June 15: deadline for submitting the templates for cycle 2.
  • ~ July 15: tournament creation (cycle 2)

  • ~end of July / September / November / ... - clan draw for template selection
  • ~mid August / October / December / ... - deadline for template submission
  • ~mid September / November / January / ... - tournament creation


Notes:

nice idea, how about 4 day games or 3 day games with 1 week banked boot time instead of account sharing?

* To reduce the impact of no vacation, I'm considering adding an initial banked boot of 5 days. In combination with auto-commit, this allows for approximately 11 days between turn advancement and being booted two turns later, the equivalent of a single vacation.
Example:
Turn x: input orders, don't commit -> auto-commit after 8 days
Turn x+1: boot after 3 days
(note: in the assumption that banked boot is eaten before auto-commit, this will be doublechecked. If not, it would be 3+8 rather than 8+3, leading to the same result overall.)

I can verify it doesn't break vacations.

* Great, good to know, thank you for the confirmation!

* I added a maximum of 3 slots (out of 8) per account. Note: if not all slots are filled, which is allowed, it's not required to have 4 different accounts. Following this update, it is now implied you need at least 3 accounts for 7 slots, 2 for 6 or lower, and 1 for 3 or lower.

Could there be a possibility of a RT games section?

Not immediately, but if there are more clans joining, but I'm not ruling it out.
Proposal: if there are at least 16 clans after 2 cycles, I will do a poll to ask this. If at least 50% agrees with it, we can look into the practical implementation (mainly discussion of convenient times).

Edited 4/25/2019 19:32:17
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:22:23


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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You mentioned that accounts have to be in the clan as of the tournament creation date. Do they have to be in the clan as of the roster submission deadline as well?
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:23:40


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Roster submission deadline = tournament creation date, so there is absolutely no difference.

Clan Cup doesn't work with explicit rosters and lineups, you just say who plays which tournament, and this has to be communicated in one way or another before tournament creation.

Edited 4/25/2019 19:25:02
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:36:33

max™
Level 59
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What about considering not having auto boot on? or having it at more than 3 days? and possibly having some guidelines on when you should boot and when you should not? while these would not be rules obviously (since point seems not to have too many rules) i would imagine that lots of people would just not boot their opponent if asked in game chat (and if it was and actual option on settings)
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:41:07


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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What about considering not having auto boot on? or having it at more than 3 days? and possibly having some guidelines on when you should boot and when you should not? while these would not be rules obviously (since point seems not to have too many rules) i would imagine that lots of people would just not boot their opponent if asked in game chat (and if it was and actual option on settings)

I can just imagine the drama that this may create!

Auto-boot is an absolute necessity, if only because both players may disappear, leading to a 100 days abandoned game boot which nobody wants.

Something like 3 days manual boot and 5 days auto-boot (combined with 5 days initial banked) could be an option in theory and would imply a practical vacation of 15 days.
I'm reluctant to actually do it (too much potential drama), but if other people agree with this idea, it's an option.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:45:26


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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I think your proposed settings are fine. You have to log in anyway to extend a vacation, so you might as well input your orders in that one game if you are going to extend the vacation. Auto-commit makes this all work well imo.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 19:52:19

max™
Level 59
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Oh yeah you're right about the drama part probably, but what if the "rule" is that it's 3 day boot? but autoboot is like 5 days or so that you can ask about it? Meaning that the default is indeed 3 days and if person gets booted after 3 days it's on them and not on the booter by default. There would probably be incidents where people promise not to boot and boot but this arrangement would anyways be on the person who asks about it and it would be their responsibility whether to trust not to get booted or not, in time people would probably get used on who they can trust with this and who they can't (and those who are booting opponents fast would probably also be booted themselves when possible)

Oh also i had a question about account sharing and such (well there being no rules about it) will there be any guidelines about it? i mean will players know who they will be playing against? something like having a guideline about it being recommended telling the opponents if player playing the game changes, or if there is multiple players having major part in deciding the orders? On competitive events it does affect a lot whether or not you know who you're playing against (or think that it's different player than who it actually is) since this can have major effect on predicts and such
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 20:33:39

max™
Level 59
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Also you can sign up SNinja, Rak will obviously be the primary contact and you can put up waddles as secondary contact
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 20:36:51


Cowboy 
Level 59
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Hahaha, Sninja will play, but you dare not be a contact ;)

I see how it is.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 20:48:07

max™
Level 59
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hahaha :p waddles was the one who did suggest us to join this so i thought he should be secondary contact, and since rak is our main leader he obviously had to be first so there was no room for me :/
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 20:49:38


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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If the goal is to avoid having drama from rulebreaking, best not to have guidelines for stuff like that imo. Just don't get help from people outside your clan (though of course that's tough to police as well I guess).

The 8 slots should be taken by minimum 4 different accounts from the same clan (clan icon must match on the date of tournament creation) with a maximum of 3 slots per account. Not all 8 slots have to be filled every time by every clan, so feel free to skip tournaments that you don't like.

I don't understand the rationale for this rule tbh. If you're allowed to collaborate, shared personal accounts, use a shared account, etc. what's the point of requiring X accounts to be used? Why couldn't a clan just sign up with two shared accounts?

Edited 4/25/2019 20:52:12
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 20:53:10


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Introducing Clan Cup: 4/25/2019 22:13:07


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 07:05:44


PJ 
Level 61
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Thanks for the organizing Math Wolf! Sounds great.
Competitive and social with a focus on fun instead of fairness.

I like that every clan can go their own way. Everything is possible from spending hours discussing moves together to having one person helping everyone to just casual playing to creating common accounts.

I support a 3-day autoboot without banked days and without vacation. It speeds up tournaments significantly and makes the cycle time more predictable. Limited time or internet access should be solved by communication with clan mates (or by just playing casual and committing after thinking for 2 minutes on the toilet).
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 07:40:32


AI 
Level 63
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I think M'Hunters can field a lineup too.
However, don't sign us up yet, I'll get back to you.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 10:07:31


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 61
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Hawks will be in
Primary Turbo
Secondary me
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 13:05:36


Mineroth
Level 51
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I don't understand the rationale for this rule tbh. If you're allowed to collaborate, shared personal accounts, use a shared account, etc. what's the point of requiring X accounts to be used? Why couldn't a clan just sign up with two shared accounts?

Was wondering this as well. Don't want to have to create 4 shared accounts just for this competition.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 19:59:03


linberson 
Level 61
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Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 20:43:40


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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(...) what if the "rule" is that it's 3 day boot? but autoboot is like 5 days or so (...)

So far, it seems there is no real support for this idea and I'm not a fan myself since I rather avoid anything that complicates it. So this will stay as it is now. (3 day autoboot with 5 days banked initially).

Oh also i had a question about account sharing (...) i mean will players know who they will be playing against? (...)

If the goal is to avoid having drama from rulebreaking, best not to have guidelines for stuff like that imo. Just don't get help from people outside your clan (though of course that's tough to police as well I guess).

I understand this question and it would be nice to know. My stance however would be: "if you can't police it, you better don't make a rule about it." (a quote from someone during discussions about CL rules) Trying to hide your identity is part of psychological warfare, so I see no problems with it either in this concept.

Also, it's impossible in practice, just imagine: "this turn, I did my turn alone, previous turn I asked those two people for advice, the turn before: I asked that person, and picks were discussed in our clan forum. Now I'm going on holiday, and that person will take over the account, but he may or may not discuss it with this or this person and if I have internet in my hotel, I'll definitely give input as well..."

Help from outside the clan is not (explicitly) forbidden either, especially if people who are in multiple clans are involved, this would be unfair to them. You might just want to ask yourself the question: why would you want to help someone from another clan? If there is a good reason, it's not really different from helping allies in a war (including potential backstabbing and helping the opponent instead!)

The 8 slots should be taken by minimum 4 different accounts from the same clan (clan icon must match on the date of tournament creation) with a maximum of 3 slots per account. Not all 8 slots have to be filled every time by every clan, so feel free to skip tournaments that you don't like.

I don't understand the rationale for this rule tbh. If you're allowed to collaborate, shared personal accounts, use a shared account, etc. what's the point of requiring X accounts to be used? Why couldn't a clan just sign up with two shared accounts?

Was wondering this as well. Don't want to have to create 4 shared accounts just for this competition.

It's not because it's possible to use a clan account, that I have to make it easy and allow clans to use only one account. It's still a clan event, and I believe there has to be a minimum number of accounts involved to be able to talk about a clan. However, I did change it from 4 to 3 to accomodate everyone who'd like to use only clan accounts, but I refuse to go any lower. Also note that already with 2 accounts, it's already possible to effectively cover all 6 tournaments, so this shouldn't be much of a restriction. In summary: if someone wants to use all alts/clan accounts, they'd at least have to put in some effort to have/create/manage multiple accounts to show that they are dedicated to it.

Edited 4/27/2019 20:15:42
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/26/2019 23:35:52


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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I don't think we were going to use only 2 accounts anyway, I was just curious about the reasoning.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/27/2019 06:12:19


AyanM 
Level 60
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MH is participating.

I am the primary contact. Thanks.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/27/2019 13:54:53


dry-clean-only
Level 59
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CORP will take part:
Primary Contact: Me-clean-only https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=4419488318
Secondary Contact: Nemo https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=3870701119
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/27/2019 16:07:42


Frozen Koala
Level 55
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"There are no further rules, just play the game. Taking over accounts, using alts, switching clans, playing with different accounts over different seasons, discussing moves with others, playing for different clans, teaming with your alt, ... it's all allowed. You could even use a "Clan account" to play and discuss moves in your clan forum (just don't complain if your opponent has a spy in your clan). Breaking Warzone rules is of course not allowed but will not be penalized by Clan Cup organizers."

This is probably obvious, but I thought I'd spell it out: this also allows Clan Cup to be a great training tool. Learning members can ask questions and see the thought processes of better players - without having to be carried in-game. Not pushing this, but to point out an extreme: one elite could help train an entire clan rather than 1-2 at a time. Some players could/would eventually figure this stuff out on their own analysis, but others won't be very exposed to higher level games or will miss important subtleties. Its a damned sight easier and faster to learn in context if they can see the reasoning for the course of action and alternatives.

This also potentially helps less organized or unstable clans sort out rosters for CL: Who knows their stuff? Who's learning? Who's active? Who's a better teammate? Etc.

I like to think that making a more casual environment reduces the potential for drama too. :D
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/27/2019 18:35:11


Platinum
Level 61
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As long as nobody goes full try hard mode, this league will be fun and enjoyable.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/27/2019 20:18:23


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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I don't think we were going to use only 2 accounts anyway, I was just curious about the reasoning.

I edited my previous reply to make it more general as it did sound too much like I was talking directly to the people I was quoting, rather than in a more general sense. My apologies!

Thank you for the kind words Frozen Koala & Platinum.


I think M'Hunters can field a lineup too.
However, don't sign us up yet, I'll get back to you.

MH is participating.
I am the primary contact. Thanks.

I added M'Hunters now, with secondary contact to be determined. Correct me if wrong.



For the draw of which clans can determine templates: I will do this tomorrow when I'm online, which will probably be around noon European Time (morning in America). I will include all clans that have signed up by that time.
The draw will be done with the statistical program R (version 3.5.1). I will set the seed to 1 and then draw from the clans (which will be ordered alphabetically) and then who can decide 1v1 and 2v2.

Exact code (with real clans rather than placeholders):

set.seed(1)
sample(c("clan A","clan B","clan C","clan D","clan E","clan F","clan G","clan H","clan I"),6)
sample(c(rep("1v1",4),rep("2v2",2)))

Since I cannot foresee which clans will still sign up between now and tomorrow, I can hence not influence the draw.

Edited 4/27/2019 20:28:54
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/27/2019 21:25:45

Derfellios 
Level 60
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101st will play:
Primary contact: Arand0mPlayer https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=7710521647
Secondary contact: Derfellios https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=6146168723
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/28/2019 11:45:01

Math Wolf [2] 
Level 57
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> set.seed(1)
> sample(c("{101st}","Apprentice","CORP","FCC","|GG|","Hawks","LuFredd","Masters","M'Hunters","ONE!","Outlaws","SNinja","Statisticians"),6)
[1] "FCC"        "|GG|"       "LuFredd"    "ONE!"       "Apprentice" "Masters"   
> sample(c(rep("1v1",4),rep("2v2",2)))
[1] "2v2" "1v1" "1v1" "1v1" "2v2" "1v1"

  • 1v1 templates for cycle 1 can be chosen by:
    |GG|
    LuFredd
    ONE!
    Masters
  • 2v2 templates for cycle 1 can be chosen by:
    FCC
    Apprentice
  • I will send a PM to all contacts of these clans, you can propose your template (preferably through an example game) as a reply to that PM.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/28/2019 12:06:00


Viking1007
Level 55
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When will the actual playing start? The rules sound great and I really like the idea of a Clan Cup.
Introducing Clan Cup: 4/28/2019 17:11:54

Sakata Gintoki
Level 58
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Avengers will join.
Primary contact: Sakata
Secondary contact: DanWL
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