ban my children from seeing me again
Karen fucking took the kids, wtf

Edited 11/19/2018 23:32:44

The severity of some of these punishments is honestly a lose-lose for everyone. I hope the panel remembers this is just a free online Risk game that we play for fun. We're not professional players that compete in some paid league. Sure, in competitive sports, you see people suspended for several years for doping and whatnot, but this is just a hobby lmao.

With that being said, I don't think it's right or useful at all to be levying bans on players, unless they're truly just bad apples. A 2 slot suspension is already more than enough in getting the message across to our convicted criminals while having a significant effect, because at the end of the day, this is your goal right? Or is it to deter people from snitching/confessing and doing the right thing while encouraging the truly amoral to continue quietly surviving in the manner that they always have?

And what is the need to go to this extent and end up undermining the best clan on WZ and in the process, make CL Div A less fun and competitive for everyone? Does any clan serious about CL actually want to play and win Div A with such a hollow Masters?

Most importantly, do you really feel the need to tell people they can't play in this community event for one whole year even though some of them are amongst the most outstanding characters on this site and have contributed more to CL, the game, and other players than most of us ever will? Because you are essentially telling these players that they are not welcome, and I, for one, would still be more than happy to play against Deadman, Xeno, and Farah, provided they don't cheat again. Our community is small enough, so what do we gain by excluding each other even further? How many more 'one years' will CL and WZ last for? This is why I don't think bans should be used except as an ultimate last resort to block out those dirty players that we truly want to distance ourselves from, and I find it an unwise decision to be using them unless these guys are guilty of such offences once again.

Finally, it is mindboggling to me that we are penalizing players 2 years!!! down the road for things they did 1.5 years ago in a community competition in some free Risk game. I'm guessing the panel probably came up with that to serve as a more lenient middle ground versus an immediate punishment next season, but once again, the immediate punishments are already more than enough to get the message across and to have an impact as well.

To summarize, I think the severity of the panel's sentences are overkill on mostly the wrong people. They don't fix the initial problem, revelations will likely become scarcer/nonexistent, and they hurt CL and the community. I hope you guys can consider reevaluating your punishments, especially with regards to bans.

If clans have players with extra slots, I think allowing coaches would be okay per template or whatever to help mitigate the whole 'recreating scenarios' and 'discussing with non-teammates' deal. So long as a slot is used. I don't really have a comment for anything else since people have already detailed the problem with boot avoidance and stuff already.

+1 what FiveStarGeneral said, and also what rakleader said. These guys have their heads on straight.

Question:

One of the trails this panel has judged upon was in regards to a player using custom scenarios to study a match, with another person as advisor.

Is the crime in question specifically the custom scenario or the advice?

I assume the advice. A player I assume would not be punished for the act of re-creating a game and playing against an AI, for example.

http://prntscr.com/lkhhc4

I like the Panel's decision but I think Rak is onto something with how we conduct CL in the future.

Edited 11/20/2018 02:33:44

Ho hum, the drama never stops.

Thanks rak for stating clearly what most sane people feel. Can I try to summarize?

1. Boots suck, and no one wins.
2. Try to make next CL so boots are easily and legally avoided.
3. Have some fun.

Assistance is the problem. The intent of CL is to test depth and skill. If people help each other that are not in the game that is an issue.

Boots are a totally separate issue that i understand not everyone feels the same way about. I think it is pretty easy to see the helping issue though and I assume all can agree on that?

yeah, it should not become a "CL by committee thing"

I agree that that would be ideal. However it is important to recognize that the helping thing is largely undetectable and therefore unenforceable. It is important to bear that in mind when drafting and enforcing rules.

dumb to ban the guy who poured heart and soul imo

dumb is wrong word but I disagree... also it seems silly to punish for a CL that happened maybe years ago? but better late than never I guess, its not my event and I understand I broke rules

anyways deadman I hope you come back, and goodluck Masters, altho if you hadn't won CL I doubt this would be such an issue :)

So, how did you gangbangers all managed to get caught?

Do we have full time snitches checking the player flags? Did you brag about it on your Instagram profile?

Edited 11/20/2018 08:12:32

Question:

One of the trails this panel has judged upon was in regards to a player using custom scenarios to study a match, with another person as advisor.

Is the crime in question specifically the custom scenario or the advice?

I assume the advice. A player I assume would not be punished for the act of re-creating a game and playing against an AI, for example.

I'd like that to be clarified by the panel as well so that we know what's against the rules and what's not. To my knowledge there was no advice given at all. It was only a game played on custom scenario. So apparently that's a breech of rules in itself, somehow?

As for the bans - great decisions. I 100% agree.

Let's not forget that Deadman and Beren banned some people for half a season simply for logging into Clot with a wrong account (which is annoying for the admins to monitor and fix, but there was no intent of cheating). In that case a full season ban for clear breaching of rules is the least they should've expected.

@Edit: Good luck to Masters, I hope they find some new recruits and enter CL11 after all. But if they don't and are unable to fill the lineup without cheaters, maybe they shouldn't play? Seems logical. Is there something wrong in that?

@Edit2: We can think about changing rules for the future. But for now we must respect the current ones. Not banning the biggest cheaters would be a big FU to everyone who plays fair.

@Edit3: I'll repeat what ChrisCMU said. Only a small minority of the cases here was avoiding a boot. Most of them was just getting an unfair advantage. Somehow people seem to miss it.

Edited 11/20/2018 12:10:34

Just to clear that one up quickly.

In this case the actual CL game was recreated with the exact same distribution as the original game. We decided, that it's not appropriate to play an exact replica of a CL game against another human player.

We don't mind players to recreate a game and play it against their own alt account or the AI, to test how things would work out.

The other things will get addressed later.

@Edge:
We want to keep that decision to the involved players. If they appeal their punishment or ask for all the evidence, we can show it here.

Players will understand what rules mean exactly (there was a confusion of "taking over account". Few thought it means login to others' account and few thought it means login to play for others-which lead them to interpret that it is okay to login and activate a vacation). The evidences are simply to explain it and if the rules are to be written in detail, then it is ok.

@rak:
CL10 was a big improvement in that area, with the CLOT that allowed substitutions, but I think we could go even further in CL11.

CL9 also had substitutions, but players had to write in the forum thread for that and atmost 3days before the next game creation for that slot. CL10 it was directly through CLOT.

@Norman:
Do we have full time snitches checking the player flags?

hmmm, for first half I was checking :P it will be interesting to actually check full time.

@FSG:
Most importantly, do you really feel the need to tell people they can't play in this community event for one whole year even though some of them are amongst the most outstanding characters on this site and have contributed more to CL, the game, and other players than most of us ever will?

If panel had shown leniency/more leniency for the contribution, it would have been better imho.

Fuck you Rento

Edit: Want to join MASTER Clan?

Edited 11/20/2018 14:33:49

Masters can still win it all if the people who are still available want to bust their balls and get it done. It would be a good challenge, but they are good enough players to do it. I wouldn't doubt them if they gave it a shot.

So is it worth to play 3 teamgames? I doubt it. Someone else can prove themselves if the situation stays as it is