Point me another league anywhere in the world where you have Alpha clans with feeder clans in the same division in any competition format in a league-based competition.

Because I've never seen one.

you mean leagues of different sports which allow athletes to be loaned to clubs in the same divisions as long as they want the deal to happen?

or do you mean billionaire leagues like Bundesliga which allows a team to buy players from the same team repeatedly?

aren't the two above the main benefits of having a parent/feeder club in, say, football?

money isn't involved in WZ so conflict of interest isnt nearly as much relevant as in these cases, you're asking to screw a lot of people that have absolutely nothing to do with your concerns regarding their parent clans

Edited 11/25/2018 23:17:59

So you have no examples of leagues where feeder clans/alpha clans are in the same division anywhere in the world.

Alright.

You justify your explanation saying money isn't involved in WarZone. There was no money involved when the rules were broken by all those players at the beginning of this thread.

Edited 11/25/2018 23:24:18

Let's not forget Lynx and 101st played in the same division in Clan League 6, and I don't remember anyone having a problem with that. =P

I have met maybe only 6 or 7 people that want this rule plat. Really it's basically only you that wants these pointless rules

well i mean, all i'm asking since my first post in this thread was a solid, objective point in how exactly other teams are impaired by feeder clans playing in the same division as in parents, the money example was valid because well there's no money involved so why would you even cheat to begin with, there's literally nothing to gain from it

to put it simply there is no solid reason to make that happen, all you have is opinions vs opinions and a number of people that for quite a while has been concerned of a potential scenario that already happened in the past as JSA and Zero pointed out

"Should feeder clans and Alpha clans be in the same division together?"

can be read as

"Should we assume cheating will happen if feeder clans and Alpha clans play in the same division?"

just as much it can be read as

"Should we just tell every player in feeder clans to f*** off with their efforts because we're afraid of cheating?"

there is a difference in risk and actual harm, i'm just doing my part in voicing my opinion since i felt it was a one-sided discussion

You're choosing to read it like that, I'm not implying you would cheat I just find it really dumb to have a feeder clan in the same clan as an alpha clan. You literally wouldn't find this logic in any other leagues across the world.

Yet here, It's an issue.

@Clan League 6 point.

Let's not compare these situations, Lynx at that time wanted to restructure their best players from 101st to go to Lynx for name/branding purposes as I've understood it. 101st was basically a brain drained clan in the strategic sense and most players saw them as going downhill so this argument wasn't worth bringing up, considering all the power was debating if Lynx should take the 101st spot.

101st relegated to division C in CL6 and were essentially a dead corpse of a clan where I took over.

While the 101st/Apps today have the strength to promote to A division with their mother clans hence why it's now valid to bring this argument up.

Edited 11/25/2018 23:43:32

Let's imagine, If you were to create a league from scratch and was asked if you wanted to allow feeder clans into the same league as alpha clans, any decent organizer would say no, that's a bad idea to throw that formula into a competition format.

I would allow them and whenever it becomes obvious that someone cheats, ban them. If a clan can get itself and its feeder clan into the highest division of a league, that's a job well done, no?

Point being, this should've been discussed when the feeder clans entered into Clan League instead of holding it
But we are in this mess now, but what's not going to aid this situation is trying to formulate a bloody rule to appease a few butthurt people. Just because a decision has to be made doesn't mean there has to be a bloody rule made every time.

1) Maybe you need a bit of a reminder of clan-history and the past divisions. 101st existed and Lynx sprouted out of that. When that happened, plenty of discussion took place; there was even a ruling preventing Lynx to take over the 101st spot. They had to start from scratch. The benefit Outlaws had was way better, no?
2) Judging this thread, there is but one butthurt person; it's you. Don't get me wrong, i have my doubts about Lynx and 101st being in the same division, but as far as I'm aware they're innocent until proven guilty. When they do actually cheat, ban them. The same as others got banned after cheating. There's no need to have your suspicions as the precedent for an official rule. If someone wants to cheat, they will. And if that's found out, they'll be dealt with.

Let's not make this a beauracy, ask the simple question (to whoever is in charge of this topic) to yourself "Should feeder clans and Alpha clans be in the same division together?" and make your decision.

Yes, as long as there's no collusion. And when there is, again, prove it and have them banned. Easy as that.

Assuming we agree with you all, 101st/Apprentice promote which is very possible.

We would have a Division A of

Masters
Outlaws
Lynx
101st
Apprentice
WG
Sninja

*Let's say MH and ONE relegates. (I don't think that happens but whatever)

We would have 101st/Lynx relationship, a Masters/Apprentice relationship in the top division of the site.

And people say "sure look we can trust them", when we have just had the past organisers (the last people we would expect to break rules) breaking the rules and getting full season bans.

The logic is so incredibly flawed. What I've said are very valid points and instead I've been requested to be banned two times and accused of butthurt.

I've made my opinion clear on this subject, let whatever happens at the end of the day, it's each person's call if they want to play in this league or not.

But if you really think it's healthy to have a top division like this as the premiere on this website, well by god I wish the best to you all.

Edited 11/26/2018 00:01:06

So you have no examples of leagues where feeder clans/alpha clans are in the same division anywhere in the world.

Alright.

You justify your explanation saying money isn't involved in WarZone. There was no money involved when the rules were broken by all those players at the beginning of this thread.

At least in League of Legends CLG and CLG EU competed internationally. Later they made rules making 'feeder clans' in a separate league whenever they actually started franchising. If you look at international competition for like SC2, Overwatch, etc. they typically allow 'feeder' organizations play on the same stage. The mentality is that if the feeder organization can make it to the same level as the main organization they deserve to be there. Throwing games would be just as scrutinized for them as it would for any other organization.

You wanted examples, so there are examples with way more money involved than WarZone.

Masters
Outlaws
Lynx
101st
Apprentice
WG
Sninja

>implying Apprentice can take ONE out of div A

They certainly gained that strength in CL7 and CL8 though. Back then you weren't advocating for them to be banned from being in the same division.

lol, how about just delete clan league? this is some serious A-grade high school bullshit. its a free game guys that people commit so much time to.

see me after class machine washed blitz

I don't think the worry is that the feeder clan will throw games to help the main clan - I would agree that wouldn't make sense. I think it is more that the main clan will help the feeder clan against a common opponent. Given all the sketchiness and bans handed out over shared accounts and helping with picks and game play recently, I would suggest this isn't an outrageous concern even if you think it's unlikely.

I can't comment that well on CL6 because I wasn't around for it. During CL8, we (101st/future Outlaws) were all butt-hurt because we had evolved into a strong group of players, requested that we be able to operate independently and were told no by Lynx (to the point where we couldn't even make all of our own decisions, when Kantos was forced into our lineup as a sub). We didn't even have as close a relationship with Lynx at the time as exists today.

So to the current 101st who thinks they're getting screwed - congratulations, you're just in the same situation that we were in. We had to choose between moving to Lynx or forming an independent clan. Your turn.

you're ugly bonsai

This is not a Outlaws-therapy group in which you discuss how badly you have been threatened by Lynx and had to found your own clan. You did so and that's your choice. You got the spot which could have been decided in different way, but that's history.

You made about 20 posts now not beeing able to state a clear rule nor did you come up with an explanation, why on earth we have to assume feeder clans cheat for sure and therefore have to introduce a rule over "feeder" clans not beeing able to promote to div A.
And I will tell you what. The moment a "feeder" clan promotes to div A there will be a new dynamic, which makes the clan more independent and I am very sure those guys wouldn't be fine with collaborating.

And by the way you are starting discussions it is pretty clear there will be no rule!

Plat not even able spotting sarcasm on the case that he needs to be banned. Hmmm .... maybe he cheated. Ethics Panel please check him and ban him before he can do any harm. We do not need a specific rule for that, as we don't need a bloody rule in every case we take a decision.

Edited 11/26/2018 08:40:14

let's put this in the most objective fashion, you want feeder clans to be punished before they even get to play

the real question here is why, don't be shy and let's discuss, surely we'll work something out together

If feeder clans are allowed it is only reasonable to also allow big clans to field a primary and a secondary roster so that weaker players get a chance to experience clan league without being forced to move away from their friends...

or do you want to punish big clan for being big?

Edited 11/26/2018 12:26:27

Am I the only one who sees the phrase "feeder clans" as completely moronic? They are training clans.