A little history.:

When Lynx was made, JSA (a longtime WL friend) petitioned me (running CL) to give Lynx 101st division spot, so they would not have to promote. I denied that request. I said if you want your 'elite' players in the better division, then they need to stay in 101st, rather than moving them to a new 'clan'. It isn't fair to deny that slot to people still in 101st.

My point is that there is no way to consider them separate (they have never attempted to be that way). They had no problem trying to swap divisions for their needs before.

I am not saying you can/cannot have them in the same division. My only point is the admins of this CL must NOT consider them as separate individual clans...whatever they decide.

Also, WG/SNinja has no system and should not be part of this discussion.

We attempted to set up a system that never happened. We don't even have any shared members (almosttricky went back to Sninja, he was in both a while). All we have is a discord community we chat on.

They are completely separate clans.

I'll try to make my point even clearer.

When it's decided that some clan is not allowed to play in whatever division, they need to know what criteria they need to fill to change that decision.

If any limit is imposed on 101st or Apps or whomever only because they call themselves a training clan, then guess what. They'll simply stop calling themselves a training clan. And the same people as usual will start complaining about circumventing rules etc. And we'll have the same discussion about improving rules once again.

That's my point. If you want to make rules for it, go ahead. But do it properly, don't half-arse it.

So, any constructive suggestions? Like, joint management? Alts in each other's clan? I don't think that "because JSA contacted me in 2014" is a good basis, sorry Chris.

Edited 11/23/2018 20:35:05

I want a panel formed like the Ethics Committee to discuss this issue out and form their own conclusion so the league can move on.

far too serious guys, just give people bans so they can at least play one game next season 9like me), any clans can play anywhere, relax, chill, enjoy the fun of the game :)

@Math Wolf
A forum is where you were supposed to voice concerns I had thought? But the Clan Committee wants everyone that has an issue to mail them directly? I personally like "complaining" here and comparing thoughts and opinions on an open forum >.<

You can't compare Fizzer to Master of the Dead because we can't ban Fizzer...

To my knowledge in sports junior teams are not allowed to play in top division with their main teams. Even if they win 2nd league, they are not allowed to promote in order to avoid conflict of interest in mutual games.

I think its a good rule in sports.

@Everyone
What Nemo says is very unbiased and makes a lot of sense, especially considering this is the MOST competitive event we have on Warzone. Also we are not just discussing 101st, that is your sensitivity, but we are discussing Apprentice too. Don't make it all about yourselves...
I think there would be a conflict of interests, and it is a dangerous situation we should avoid. What if Masters helps Apprentice win games against their rival clan? Masters has already been punished multiple times for cheating. It is a situation that can and should be avoided due to problems that could surface. Cheating isn't something that can be stopped while its happening, it has to be prevented.


P.S. Breaking away from Lynx was the best thing 101st ever did. Now they've hit 2 straight podium finishes and sport a pretty cool new logo. If you want your clan in A division being independent is the best way to do it.

Edited 11/23/2018 21:39:18

So what exactly is your guyses main arguments against training clans being in the same division as the higher up clan thats "connected" to them???

very unbiased

It frustrates me so much when someone says "unbiased" in anything. There is no such thing as not having a bias.

What Nemo said was clearly biased. Nemo is biased towards not having sister clans play in the same division. What he wrote was a justification of his stance on the issue. It may be a really good point, but it is still a biased one.

I honestly have 0 problems with training clans being in the same league as a higher clan. But then again I don't have ethics.

The 101st/Apprentice argument is snoozeworthy, it's obvious that you shouldn't have two teams from the 'same clan' playing in the same division. But then having a training clan at all is just a bit pretentious......

Anyhow, Just wanted to annoy some people with that comment and also to thank the ethics panel for all their hard work. I don't agree with all of their decisions 100% but feel it's a very good effort on all their parts and one of the best workable solutions to the rule breaks.

I like what Rakleader said: Would be nice to be able to use a substitute midgame by agreeing to take over that account at the same time as a substitution for that player. Would prevent boots and mean people (Like myself) wouldn't choose to break the rules like that. TJC at the time had to decide whether we wanted to replace Rikku in ongoing games or throw away tons of points in a hotly contested division. Ultimately it boils down to whether people want CL Divisions to be won by the most skilled clan or the most dependable clan.

Yes thank ypu very much you are awesome an ethic scomittee is better than no committee lots of effort thank you

training clans are nice not everyone can play their first 100 game snad prepared to pla y for masters or lynx

committee is awesome ad people in it are more awesome

but bottom line who knows who the most skilled clans is when the same "clan" plays to hgroups in same division

lynx has been known to move players back and forth very often which imo should make them ineligible

and ya apprentice is with mastes who ave cheater so we cant trust em either

so imo no feeder clans playingwith their mother clan because that can cause lots of issues


p.s. sorry im veyr drunk

To everyone who is arguing that Lynx/101st should not be allowed to play in the same division, you are five seasons too late.

May I present Season 6 of the Clan League to all of you:
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/76938-clan-league-6-official-thread

Lynx and 101st both played in Group B during Clan League 6. And guess what. No one had any problem with it. And by some miracle, no collaboration occurred.

Cool story, bro. It's always nice when Grandpa JSA drops by for an old-timers story. May I be the first to welcome you back to the present day, where no one outside of Lynx and Masters are going to trust them to play in the same division as 101st and Apprentice. That would be a miracle, indeed.

you're ugly bonsai

are you seriously telling us that because something might happen, let's make everything forbidden even though it happened without problems in the past? this is delusional, we're supposed to improve from mistakes not guesses

Edited 11/24/2018 11:39:33

@Tacky:
Where exactly in the recent past did players move back and froth form one clan to another for CL. There is a rule, which prevents exactly this!

@Plat:
We have such a panel and it is the managers of clan league plus the audit panel, if I recall it correctly. And before they introduce new rules the assembly of clan leaders gets to vote.

While some may feel there is a need to close div A for clans which are closely connected, this needs to be stated by clear and objective rules. Simply saying Apps and Masters and 101st and Lynx aren't allowed to play both at once in div A isn't an objective rule nor is it fair. It goes with the nature of things, that some clans have closer relationships with each other than others do. If you want to meet potential collaboration of clans, you need to find objective criteria. For example one could introduce hard punishments for collaboration. By the way you are raising this issue, everyone has to come to the conclusion, that you aren't interested in the debate about the issue, but want to throw dirt on Apps/101st.

Serious question: Did not you want to retire? When does this retirement begin?

---
On a side note for Lynx/101st:
Personally when I was leading 101st,I never had the big aim to get 101st play in div A for different reasons.

Edited 11/24/2018 10:58:50

This discussion is honestly ridiculous. Mistakes have been made, people are punished for it, now taking pre emptive measures against people that haven't even done anything wrong is a punishment on a punishment, as the only reason for it happening is the fact that people have made mistakes and now aren't trusted for it.

Obviously there should be strict rules in play if the situation ever does come to pass that apps/101st are in the same division as masters/lynx, but taking pre emptive measures that prevent the clans from ever promoting from B to A makes no sense. It just demotivates from trying your best as this is the highest ever reachable.

There'll always be clans working closer together, or even just people working closer together, that shouldn't influence the CL in any way.

I like how 15 posts after I asked for constructive suggestions for criteria, there's still none.

@Krunx

"We have such a panel and it is the managers of clan league plus the audit panel if I recall it correctly. And before they introduce new rules the assembly of clan leaders gets to vote."

What have they done? Nothing. Only when I raised this issue on this thread, there's attention and what's happened? Still nothing. There's not a structure in place. To think otherwise it's a fantasy world. If so, why hasn't someone outlined what the process will be? Because there's not a clear one in place. This is the detail I've gotten.

"Mh, yeah that seems hard enough, so I should probably focus on that. And outsource all the other stuff."

Don't tell me there's a structure in place. Nothing wrong with no structure, just when you are being deluded saying there's a good one in place.

To your criteria point, can I give a ruling that is waterproof and has no flaws in it? Probably not. So I will state on what I only see. The promotion process, Apps/101st have had players promote to Masters/Lynx. This is a red flag in my eyes, If you're telling me these clans can be put in the same division. So the promotion process can be the objective criteria perhaps.

"By the way you are raising this issue, everyone has to come to the conclusion, that you aren't interested in the debate about the issue, but want to throw dirt on Apps/101st. "

Everyone meaning you and Rento? Every issue it's the "Platinum has a rage against 101st/Lynx/Apps" victim card that's being used. Book me with Rento the therapist and we'll bring you into the room, you can have a teddy bear and show Rento where I hurt you. I care about your feelings.

Grow up.

To conclude once more, It's common sense to not have a feeder clan with the alpha clan in the interest of competition. Would anyone play in a division with 101st/Apps in the same division as their alpha clan? No. I wouldn't, I would drop out of Clan League in this scenario cause it's such a naive idea. Nemo and Dry-clean and Tacky only are only the tip of the iceberg with me who knows this is bullshit but actually publically voiced their support.

Not a single arguement by Plat, not a single one! Are you really not able to argue?

You are an attention whore, nothing more nothing less. Not able to provide anything productive.

As Plat is constantly TROLLING in case of CL and throwing dirt on other, it can't be excluded, he collabates in order to punish clans he hates. Therefore, we need to take measures before he is able to do so. I request the ethics panel to BAN Plat.

Makes sense? No?! So why are you arguing in such a fashion.