Seems like the right time to create a new panel to investigate feeder clans.

Don't forget the audit panel for that feeder clan panel

Plus the mandatory criminal probe into previous clan leagues to impeach clan leaders who didn't think to introduce an ethics panel earlier, with corresponding audit panel.

Fun fact: the only people who truly win in court are the lawyers! Billable hours do add up!

@ Smoove - I think the warnings were appropriate in the sense that a rule was broken, even though most of us would like to see it changed so that a teammate can set a vacation. Pretty sure that sharing account details was forbidden, but can't check the clot since it's down. Having everyone say later "eh, no big deal, go right ahead" was frustrating because it's not like I could go back in time and have Edge or aoc extend my vacation that ran out and booted a bunch of my games.

Let's just keep adding rules, committees, and audit committees for those committees until we make clan league so confusing and bureaucratic that it's not enjoyable anymore!

Edited 11/25/2018 08:03:42

@aura

The lack of rules is what got us in this sticky situation FYI

No it didn't. Rules were all in place and very detailed since CL9, even if not everyone liked them and they could possibly need some tweaks. It was just few vocal people obsessed with "cheaters" and witch hunting that demand overcomplex rulings and panels against everyone they don't like, that carry on this shit "discussion".

Edited 11/25/2018 14:45:54

Can I be banned? I'm a dirty dirty boy.

Since when has this league become a challenge of how many rules do we need to make to make sure everyone isn't butthurt? Is this a government?

Let's imagine, If you were to create a league from scratch and was asked if you wanted to allow feeder clans into the same league as alpha clans, any decent organizer would say no, that's a bad idea to throw that formula into a competition format. Who would think that far ahead for such a scenario however when feeder clans were allowed into this league?

Point being, this should've been discussed when the feeder clans entered into Clan League instead of holding it
But we are in this mess now, but what's not going to aid this situation is trying to formulate a bloody rule to appease a few butthurt people. Just because a decision has to be made doesn't mean there has to be a bloody rule made every time.

I'm already going to predict no decision will be made on this, instead it'll be a wait and see after CL11 and see if any of these clans will actually promote for when this topic will need to be discussed.

And we'll have hot-headed idiots calling for bans to people who voice their opinion. Ridiculous.

Let's not make this a beauracy, ask the simple question (to whoever is in charge of this topic) to yourself "Should feeder clans and Alpha clans be in the same division together?" and make your decision.

Edited 11/25/2018 23:02:20

Let's not make this a beauracy, ask the simple question (to whoever is in charge of this topic) to yourself "Should I just have the power to choose between A an B and depending on the option, screw whoever is objectivelly impaired by the result?" and make your decision.

Point me another league anywhere in the world where you have Alpha clans with feeder clans in the same division in any competition format in a league-based competition.

Because I've never seen one.

you mean leagues of different sports which allow athletes to be loaned to clubs in the same divisions as long as they want the deal to happen?

or do you mean billionaire leagues like Bundesliga which allows a team to buy players from the same team repeatedly?

aren't the two above the main benefits of having a parent/feeder club in, say, football?

money isn't involved in WZ so conflict of interest isnt nearly as much relevant as in these cases, you're asking to screw a lot of people that have absolutely nothing to do with your concerns regarding their parent clans

Edited 11/25/2018 23:17:59

So you have no examples of leagues where feeder clans/alpha clans are in the same division anywhere in the world.

Alright.

You justify your explanation saying money isn't involved in WarZone. There was no money involved when the rules were broken by all those players at the beginning of this thread.

Edited 11/25/2018 23:24:18

Let's not forget Lynx and 101st played in the same division in Clan League 6, and I don't remember anyone having a problem with that. =P

I have met maybe only 6 or 7 people that want this rule plat. Really it's basically only you that wants these pointless rules

well i mean, all i'm asking since my first post in this thread was a solid, objective point in how exactly other teams are impaired by feeder clans playing in the same division as in parents, the money example was valid because well there's no money involved so why would you even cheat to begin with, there's literally nothing to gain from it

to put it simply there is no solid reason to make that happen, all you have is opinions vs opinions and a number of people that for quite a while has been concerned of a potential scenario that already happened in the past as JSA and Zero pointed out

"Should feeder clans and Alpha clans be in the same division together?"

can be read as

"Should we assume cheating will happen if feeder clans and Alpha clans play in the same division?"

just as much it can be read as

"Should we just tell every player in feeder clans to f*** off with their efforts because we're afraid of cheating?"

there is a difference in risk and actual harm, i'm just doing my part in voicing my opinion since i felt it was a one-sided discussion

You're choosing to read it like that, I'm not implying you would cheat I just find it really dumb to have a feeder clan in the same clan as an alpha clan. You literally wouldn't find this logic in any other leagues across the world.

Yet here, It's an issue.

@Clan League 6 point.

Let's not compare these situations, Lynx at that time wanted to restructure their best players from 101st to go to Lynx for name/branding purposes as I've understood it. 101st was basically a brain drained clan in the strategic sense and most players saw them as going downhill so this argument wasn't worth bringing up, considering all the power was debating if Lynx should take the 101st spot.

101st relegated to division C in CL6 and were essentially a dead corpse of a clan where I took over.

While the 101st/Apps today have the strength to promote to A division with their mother clans hence why it's now valid to bring this argument up.

Edited 11/25/2018 23:43:32

Let's imagine, If you were to create a league from scratch and was asked if you wanted to allow feeder clans into the same league as alpha clans, any decent organizer would say no, that's a bad idea to throw that formula into a competition format.

I would allow them and whenever it becomes obvious that someone cheats, ban them. If a clan can get itself and its feeder clan into the highest division of a league, that's a job well done, no?

Point being, this should've been discussed when the feeder clans entered into Clan League instead of holding it
But we are in this mess now, but what's not going to aid this situation is trying to formulate a bloody rule to appease a few butthurt people. Just because a decision has to be made doesn't mean there has to be a bloody rule made every time.

1) Maybe you need a bit of a reminder of clan-history and the past divisions. 101st existed and Lynx sprouted out of that. When that happened, plenty of discussion took place; there was even a ruling preventing Lynx to take over the 101st spot. They had to start from scratch. The benefit Outlaws had was way better, no?
2) Judging this thread, there is but one butthurt person; it's you. Don't get me wrong, i have my doubts about Lynx and 101st being in the same division, but as far as I'm aware they're innocent until proven guilty. When they do actually cheat, ban them. The same as others got banned after cheating. There's no need to have your suspicions as the precedent for an official rule. If someone wants to cheat, they will. And if that's found out, they'll be dealt with.

Let's not make this a beauracy, ask the simple question (to whoever is in charge of this topic) to yourself "Should feeder clans and Alpha clans be in the same division together?" and make your decision.

Yes, as long as there's no collusion. And when there is, again, prove it and have them banned. Easy as that.

Assuming we agree with you all, 101st/Apprentice promote which is very possible.

We would have a Division A of

Masters
Outlaws
Lynx
101st
Apprentice
WG
Sninja

*Let's say MH and ONE relegates. (I don't think that happens but whatever)

We would have 101st/Lynx relationship, a Masters/Apprentice relationship in the top division of the site.

And people say "sure look we can trust them", when we have just had the past organisers (the last people we would expect to break rules) breaking the rules and getting full season bans.

The logic is so incredibly flawed. What I've said are very valid points and instead I've been requested to be banned two times and accused of butthurt.

I've made my opinion clear on this subject, let whatever happens at the end of the day, it's each person's call if they want to play in this league or not.

But if you really think it's healthy to have a top division like this as the premiere on this website, well by god I wish the best to you all.

Edited 11/26/2018 00:01:06

So you have no examples of leagues where feeder clans/alpha clans are in the same division anywhere in the world.

Alright.

You justify your explanation saying money isn't involved in WarZone. There was no money involved when the rules were broken by all those players at the beginning of this thread.

At least in League of Legends CLG and CLG EU competed internationally. Later they made rules making 'feeder clans' in a separate league whenever they actually started franchising. If you look at international competition for like SC2, Overwatch, etc. they typically allow 'feeder' organizations play on the same stage. The mentality is that if the feeder organization can make it to the same level as the main organization they deserve to be there. Throwing games would be just as scrutinized for them as it would for any other organization.

You wanted examples, so there are examples with way more money involved than WarZone.