All statements are mine, yeah, where is the contradiction? I surrendered in the turn when that game was lost. I could've continued for fifteen or twenty turns, but zero turns is stalling? As you can read in the quote, the other game was over long before. As you can read in the quote too, I wanted to win the game before the loss for that reason at first, but then I spoke to Plat who was unhappy with that. We discussed a bit and at the end, I shared his opinion that it would be better if I abstained from the right to do that first to ensure the social peace in the community, since obviously some jealouses would show up and argue about this. He had a legit point, the other game was already over at that time too, so it seemed fairer to me to surrender in the same day as I accept the surrenders in the won game instead of claiming the win earlier, to prevent stalling accusations (to say it with Farah's words: Just surrender when you lost). Afterwards, Plat apologised for the false accusation and removed his posts.

Today, both surrenders are accepted and we are still first. What bad staller I am - I am a shame for my family, clan and nationality. No idea how such a person can bear itself.

Oh brave new world... I used to think Plat was the fairness police. Now I see that if somebody can't be accused of being unfair, people find other ways to live their envy out. I fear that the only way to prevent this is not being successful at all meanwhile, or to surrender all games when it comes close to a trophy so nobody needs to be unhappy because he can't have that too and search a reason why the other person shouldn't either.

You got me. I really envy you for this 2vs2 ladder trophy

are u saying ollie is jealous of u ? i am sorry u seem like a nice guy and your team probably deserves that trophy with all the effort and time u spent working on it. but the only reason u are still first with the 2 losses is because ollie is busy and took vacations but u couldn know that at that time. so stalling would indeed make sense to make sure to get the trophy. that being said congrats to u and max...

Only reason you are in first now is because our team had to turn on vacation and leave the ladder. Stalling for 2 days or 20 days is no different in my opinion. You wait to get something what you would not have gotten if you surrendered to losses immediately. And yes , you would have gotten it anyway after we had taken vacation and nobody would have said anything about it.

Justify whatever you want, we all know how it is

Obviously, the more people have it, the less it is worth, that is an understandable reason, mod. Reminds me a lot of the well-known people with inflated ratings which never play RTL, but join for one game to prevent people from taking the trophy (and even brag with this in the forum!). Same motivation, just with surprising evidence.

Edited 10/23/2018 18:31:07

to prevent stalling accusations (to say it with Farah's words: Just surrender when you lost)

Just to clarify: i think you should surrender a game which you obviously lost immediately because it's fair, not to prevent stalling accusations.

Edited 10/23/2018 18:41:53

mod had the 2v2 trophy before you started playing i think, at the very least before you joined "strat" scene... actually he has all trophies, maybe we should envy him...

actually has everyone joined this yet?? ===> https://www.warzone.com/Clans/?ID=233

Edited 10/23/2018 18:34:12

I think you have all info you need to rate the case yourself now, Ollie. I cannot tell you which opinion you should have, but it's my interest that it's based on all relevant facts. If you come to the opinion that this would be stalling, this is your good right. I could also call my daughter 'stalling' (some countries would probably forbid it, but still).

There is rarely a strong indication to rate fairness such as everybody has a different opinion about what is okay and what isn't, but speaking generally, I feel authorized to say that if even Plat (!!!) doesn't think something is unfair, it's hard to argue against this :p

Edited 10/23/2018 18:40:16

@Tacky

I haven't yet, but maybe I will get a free alt if WG decides to throw me out because I got the trophy :p

Does being member of this clan increase or lower your chance to receive mod fan underpants?

"The last turn happened because I had to commit to prevent a boot since my surrender wasn't accepted"

and

"If you check the history of our latest win, you will see how long ago it was actually won already
Waiting for opponents to surrender a lost game is a bad reason to throw a trophy away.
But you are free to disagree"

"I am waiting for the trophy which I get due to a win that happened earlier than the loss against Summer (you can look at the turns and rate it yourself)
If that is stalling in your opinion, you are obviously free to think what you like"

that's a contradiction.....if we cant agree on that, i think we just disagree on what meaning is, and even though thats a interesting discussion i think it's too extensive for this tread

Will everyone please put away their pitchforks and stop attacking alexclusive? At the end of the day, alexclusive brings up undeniable point. It is impossible for a third party to know if a player takes a long time because they are stalling, or because they are in a tough spot and think they have a chance to win if they play well. Further, a player lacks the full information to be certain about the conditions of his opponent. Thus, it is always much while reviewing the history of a game to see when a player has lost, than when a player is actually playing the game.

Ethically, I don't think a player should stall. But at the same time its not against the rules, and until it is against the rules, anyone who claims it is wrong to stall is simply trying to enforce their own arbitrary relative moral values about how this game should be played onto other players who may or may not agree with them (this could be different for clans, or private tournaments who make their own rules or standards, which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do). I do not like playing stallers, but it is my belief that I shouldn't try to enforce my own relative values onto others.

So instead of trying to publicly shame people for not living and playing this game the way you want them too, can we just all take a chill pill and play a few Quick-matches while we wait for them to get booted, take their turn, or surrender?

@OP, so basically your first post is saying.

"Stalling is legal".

"I don't like stalling".

"I want force finish in all ladders".


Adding force finish is easy to do by making a simple mod. Then demonstrate that the mod works well on the ladder templates, across skill level. Then get Fizzer to add the conditions to the ladder.

There is an achievement called "Positional Advantage". To get it, the tool tip says 'Your opponent surrenders in a 1v1 while they're winning. (They must have between 5 and 20% more armies and income than you)'.

By extrapolation, this is the "official" definition of winning a game. Now someone can hash out the details and voila, problem fixed.

Edited 10/23/2018 19:03:23

@The Joey If everybody was to stall, the ladders would be essentially unplayable and stalling, in general, is bad etiquette and it's a rare occurrence because there are people willing to give you a hard time over it. There is forcing your values on someone and protecting the integrity of the game as Tacky says.

I'll look over the past 30 messages soon hopefully, It's amazing how popular I am! I was mentioned so many times!

@Njord

The last turn happened after that discussion, don't you see that? The talk in the public chat was before I talked to Plat. Then I surrendered, and then I was forced to commit some orders to prevent a boot.

Is trying to prevent a boot not legitimate anymore? Some people here seem to think that if you have the insolence to think about a turn instead of just comitting orders, you should simply be booted - no point to think about your moves in a strategy game. Some of them don't even see the difference between this and stalling, if you take a look at the thread about Ralph the Unicorn :)

Edited 10/23/2018 19:12:34

@The Joey

Thank you for your intervention, especially such as we don't know each other. I was recommended by some friends to ignore this channel and not humiliate myself down to the level of people which feel better if they manage to bully people out of the community, but I felt like I should at least put all facts here so everybody could come to an own opinion; I think that I have finished this now.

People like you make me keep believing in mankind haha, keep it up!^^

Edited 10/23/2018 19:17:25

thats not true......its like you dont know that things on discord and in warzone games are time stamped

Edited 10/23/2018 19:18:51

Now I don't know where the misunderstanding could be unless we are talking about two different things, it would potentially clear it up if you gave me screenshots

all the screenshots are already in the chat in ollies posts

Edited 10/23/2018 19:28:09

@thejoey there's nothing wrong with enforcing good sportsmanship-like conduct in the community. it's up to the leaders to set a good example for the players under them. this thread was not to attack alex, i made the thread, and i thought the evidence was a little shaky (altho ollie cleared it up)

i do not mean to come off offensive or aggressive, but the honest truth is, stalling is unsportsmanlike and such behavior should be penalized. if not by Fizzer than by the community.

edit: just to re-iterate, for joey and anyone else, this thread had nothing to do with alex upon its creation. it has escalated due to alex trying to defend himself, which is fair, but in this situation has turned out badly.

Edited 10/23/2018 19:29:53

just to clarify, i'm not here because of the stalling, im here since alex for some reason cant stop lying while being laughable bad at it, and i find it amusing.....