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I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 11:35:53


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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I recently joined a tournament and went to his team. He makes a lot free coin tournaments, has many won tournaments and good stats and had no bad reputation to my knowledge. Compared to other players who had joined the tournament at that point, Celtifringe seemed like the best team mate to have. Unfortunately Celtifringe didn't meet my expectations and showed disappointing behavior. Celtifringe has done the following:

1. Showed poor communication in team chat.
2. Surrendered in 3 games without my consent. In one of the games it was only turn 2 and in the other game we were in a winning position.

Proof:

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15546169
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15546167
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15588678

I assume that Celtifringe quit after me questioning his ability to play well. In my opinion, I did it in a calm manner and was hoping to start a conversation with him which would turn into strategy discussion. I initially believed that Celtifringe would be clever enough to see my plan and if he didn't see it well, he would ask for clarification (he has played in a lot of games with 8 neutrals to my knowledge). I don't claim to be very good player, I'm most likely far from it, but Celtifringes moves didn't exactly appear quality play material to me. In my opinion if he found any of my actions unacceptable, he should have said that, I would have listened to his complaints and acted differently in games to come since that point.

Cetifringe did not break any rules and I don't think he should be blacklisted for his behavior. I believe that we now know each other better and we'll think twice before joining each other's team next time around. I don't claim that my behavior was correct or that Celtrifinge's actions were unjustified. I also hold no grudges against him and believe he's a nice person to most people that he meets. Celtifringe's behavior came out as a surprise to me and I believe it might look surprising to more players. I hope that making this post might help to avoid bad team game experiences for some of this thread readers.

Thank you for the time spent reading my thread,
Sincerely,
Phakh Gokhn
- downvoted post by Kitler
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 13:42:41


Onoma94 
Level 60
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2 v 2 ladder with celticfringe:
Not Ranked with a rating of 0. Best rating ever: 1023, best rank ever: 66th


66th on 2v2 ladder (where there are usually about... 70 teams ranked) is truly a sign of a great player. Lmao.
- downvoted post by Kitler
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 14:56:45


master of desaster 
Level 65
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You are both CATS so what?
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 15:18:48


DanWL 
Level 62
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Perhaps you should try contributing as much as he does to the community before you post this trash.

You've clearly never heard of WTS (Warlight training school) then otherwise you'd know how much he's contributed.

It is really annoying when your in a team game and no one communicates.
- downvoted post by ------------
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 15:42:53

TBest 
Level 60
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Em, so the way i see it,

1. You enter teammates bonus without communicating your planned path.
2. You did not communicate your grand plan to your teammate (let’s take Europe is not specific enough. Also state how taht is to be done)
3. You insult your teammate for not reading your mind
4. You get upset when the teammate doesn’t want to play other games with you.

What i am getting at is that you both failed at communicating well. Also keep in mind that you two probably have different motives. You play for the free coins, while Celtefridge plays for fun. So insulting him got you excately what you could expect.

EDIT: There is no need for consent to surrender. Besides, as per your writing that was done as a reaction to your insults. So you would never consent anyway. Why bother asking?

Also... yeah practice the way you start strategic discussions. Protip, don’t start with insults. Then continue with insults.

Btw, why did you make this thread? On one hand you ask nobody to team with Celt, but then you go out of your way at the end to tell us that Celt is a cool dude? An pice of advice to ppl. Making a forum theread atakking someone will in 99% of the cases make you appere as the bad guy.

Edited 5/9/2018 15:57:54
- downvoted post by Kitler
- downvoted post by Whizzer
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 17:13:58


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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You enter teammates bonus without communicating your planned path.

Celtifringe replied "k", after that, once I realized he didn't quite imagine the path of taking Europe, I made some clarifications. The map has 0 army stand guard and 8 army neutrals, so it makes sense to cooperate to take down the bonus.

You insult your teammate for not reading your mind

Name me the part where I insulted him. I acted the way how I think should be acted upon everyone, including myself. If my moves are wrong, I need to be called out and I need to be thankful for being corrected. Tournaments are serious business, and that was a competitive tournament.

You get upset when the teammate doesn’t want to play other games with you.

I'm not angry. Anger is not what solves problems. Celtifringe has the right to do what he wants to do. Before joining team, I had different opinion about him. It was a wrong opinion and I'm glad that now I learnt more about it. If I knew it in advance, I wouldn't have joined his team. I think there are more players similar to me who might consider playing with the Celtifringe in the future, so I want to save them time and help avoid ruined tournaments.

There is no need for consent to surrender.

Yes, but it's within all team players interests to get as much as possible fun/success from their games. Celtifringe was having a problem with me and he didn't make it clear. Contributing to team is important to me, I can reword my statements to make them more acceptable to the team mate. I want that my team would perform well, so I will be calling out bad moves, and the game I showed as example I did it in a respectable manner (according to my opinion). If Celtifringe tells me his preferred way of communication, I will gladly use it. It's within my upmost interest that things in my teams go well, including both playing quality and team mate relations.

On one hand you ask nobody to team with Celt, but then you go out of your way at the end to tell us that Celt is a cool dude?

Firstly I didn't ask to not play with Celtifringe, I simply let you know that he might sometimes react emotionally, which in my opinion is not regarded well by players who want to play well in competitive environments. Secondly, one instance of bad behavior is not enough evidence of a person being bad. It could have simply been a misunderstanding and they need to be solved. Celtifringe as well could have been having a bad day and feel stressed. People who make free coin tournaments and probably much more (I rarely read forums, so don't know full list of Celtifringe's achievements, but I know he has done much more before) don't tend to be bad people. In all the instances up to listed point, Celtifringe was acting in a polite manner, always being friendly to the community. I have 0 evidence to believe that Celtifringe is a bad person, all the other facts speak of his good character.

You play for the free coins

There was no coins involved in said tournament.

Celtefridge plays for fun

In my opinion winning the game increases the amount of fun (in my opinion). At the time of talking I found nothing offensive in my comments and still don't find anything offensive in them. If I have to communicate with Celtifringe again, I will look for different methods to make my comments across, but if I communicate with anyone else, I will communicate exactly same way under similar situations, because I find nothing wrong in my comments. Getting offended is a choice, I don't want to enforce emotional weaklings to stay weak, I will say what I think should be said in no fear of someone getting offended over it. People always have an option to deal with what's being said to them and get stronger emotionally. You can't appeal to everyone, what one finds proper way of communication is an insult to another. I will leave people who don't like me alone and will stick to those who don't mind what I have to say. If I and a player who dislikes me get to the same team, I will still put my best effort to make team do well, because if I join a team it's my duty to help team perform well for duration of tournament/game. If my team mate wants to have fun, it means that I will look for ways to help my team mate have fun.

why did you make this thread?

So others players would know Celtifringe's and my behavior better. We are different kinds of players and don't suit everyone. Helping community to know what type of players we are is going to be helpful when choosing to what team to go and what not. For example, if I knew Celtifringe better, I wouldn't have joined his team and would worded my criticism differently if I ever have to talk to him.

Making a forum theread atakking someone will in 99% of the cases make you appere as the bad guy.

What you think is your business, not mine. If you want to consider me a bad guy, then have fun with it. My words are only as harmful/offensive as you make them to be. I did what I think had to be done, which in this case was telling community more about me and Celtifringe, so they could choose their teams in future games/tournaments accordingly. I regret nothing and am proud of my decisions. Regardless of how much hate I get for this thread, it was well worth it (in my opinion).

Edited 5/9/2018 17:22:47
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 17:52:41


𝔟𝔲𝔣𝔣𝔞𝔩𝔬
Level 53
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cetlic has paid me 100$ so he's good in my book
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 17:57:39


Mega Knight
Level 57
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I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe:

Firstly I didn't ask to not play with Celtifringe

You troll yourself?

Edited 5/9/2018 18:01:04
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 18:13:03


ViralGoat 
Level 59
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Not recommending and not asking are different things
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 18:23:27


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe:

Firstly I didn't ask to not play with Celtifringe


Not recommending to join his team is not equal of asking not to join his team ("I don't recommend" does not equal "you shouldn't join"). There are all kinds of players playing Warzone, some of them are like me and would like to avoid playing Celtifringe, some are different and I'm sure there are people who will be even more interested to play with Celtifringe because of reading this thread.

I believe that we should follow facts when making decisions. I stated what I know about Celtifringe and left it to each individual reader to decide how they are going to react to it. Facts which I learned about Celtifringe today were good enough reason to decide for me to avoid his teams, because I don't like being in team in which players react the way Celtifringe does. My behavior and perception is unique to me and I don't represent other players' worldviews. Part of my recommendation is based upon my opinion, so it can only be valid to people who happen to share majority of my beliefs, which does not represent whole community and therefore I am in no position to ask a reader (Who can be basically anyone) to not play games with Celtifringe, because it's likely that the opposite is true to the reader and playing games with Celtifringe will be a positive for him. In my opinion when players are left the freedom to decide what they want (no telling that a player "has to act a certain way"), they tend to make better decisions.

Edited 5/9/2018 18:25:26
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 19:41:08


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 62
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I don't understand your post. If you don't like him on your team, just blacklist him and move on. No need to make Celtifringe look bad like that, in particular considering the fact that he makes so many free coin tourneys for the WarZone's community.

Edited 5/9/2018 19:44:23
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 20:06:29


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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I don't see a need to blacklist him, I don't plan to join his team again and he has never joined my teams before. Plus this might have been the only time for Celtifringe to do something like this and in our potential future games things are likely to go much better.

Celtifringe behavior was a surprise to me, so I just wanted to inform community, that if you talk "harsh" (not sure what he finds acceptable and not) to Celtifringe, he might not let you know about it immediately and might surrender without a warning. Judging from his stats and contributions to Warzone community, players might overestimate him and get disappointed later.
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 20:16:18


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15546170

Seems like Certifringe wants to keep surrendering in all remaining games, which should be 14 more games to come.
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 21:19:12


TableTrivia
Level 58
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My contribution to this thread is this;

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=25250

Celtic Fringe Invited you to this tournament which was primarily a Celtica clan tournament.

Having never played on a team with Celtic Fringe I can't comment on his team work but I agree with most of your haters here. This post seems uncalled for.
This community doesn't take likely to unfounded Hate on respected players.
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 21:57:44


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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I joined his team to help him win the tournament. It was a great honor for me to be invited to said tournament. This means that I was ready to talk about potential mistakes both mine and Celtifringe's to make sure that we win most of games.

TableTrivia I got couple questions for you:
1. Did Celtifringe made the right decision not to voice his dislike of my speech?
2. Did Celtifringe made the correct decision to surrender in all of his games?
3. Now that I know Celtifringe's ways of communication and am ready to act differently, should he continue to surrender and not play any games?
4. Did Celtifringe show good teamwork in showed 1st message example chat (that is full conversation).
5. What was the proper thing for me to do after Celtifringe's surrender?
6. Should we avoid looking for flaws in respected players?
7. What is unfounded hate?
8. What do you know about this community? Do you know enough to speak in its name?
9. After reading this thread would you like to join celtifringe's team if it had no reserved spots for other players?

Edited 5/9/2018 21:58:31
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 22:06:20


Platinum
Level 60
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Picking team-mates is like picking chocolates, You don't know what you are gonna get. You could get a lovely sweet strawberry person who can communicate all day long! or you could have a nutty one who's so crazy and won't communicate with you.

It's gambling in this sense, you took the risk that you were going to get a perceived good team-mate.. you didn't to your head, tough luck it happens when you play random tournaments with random players. You have a clan for a reason, to play with reliable mates who you know won't let you down!

Also, I find it bizzarely hypocritical that you say Celticfringe is the person who shown poor communication. I say you should've explained your "let's take Europe". You should've listed exact orders or check his orders after he commited. As you say "I don't claim to be very good player, I'm most likely far from it, but Celtifringes moves didn't exactly appear quality play material to me." why didn't you raise him your concerns on his moves?

So In my opinion, this is your fault as much as his for poor play. I believe your frustration turned you into a annoying team-mate as telling the team-mate what he should've done after the turn passed, when there was little communication of the turn before.. There was more talk from you telling him what he should've done than actually discussing the turn when it was on it.

You didn't help yourself here and this thread puts the wool over the eyes that this is Celticfringe's fault when I would argue you didn't exactly help the cause so this is partially your fault for assuming too much foolishly.

To misleadingly create a tittle that discredits Celticfringe reputation, when you yourself have commited some errors in the skill of communicating that you haven't realised. Yet still, figure you will make a thread on the community makes me think worse of you, It makes me think you have a bit of an elitist ego. Imagine if players like Mod/Motd made threads saying how shit there team-mates are.
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 23:04:05


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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I find it bizzarely hypocritical that you say Celticfringe is the person who shown poor communication.

In my opinion Celtifringe's communication was worse. My communication had some issues, now I see them better, hopefully will do better next time on that part. I do my best to learn from my mistakes, I hope Celtifringe does so too. I wanted to first hear Celtifringe's opinion on his decisions and then suggest some improvements. I have dealt before with players who don't like long explanations (or sometimes none at all) of what to do, so when facing new team mates (especially towards silent side), i try not to write too much and see if they're eager to talk themselves. Celtifringe also has good winrates on his profile, so I assumed from seeing them that he understands how to play, or at least ask questions when something is not clear (was wrong on it).

this thread puts the wool over the eyes that this is Celticfringe's fault

I didn't claim to have made all the right decisions myself either. If Celtifringe had informed me about his issues, I would have changed my ways of communication.

To misleadingly create a tittle that discredits Celticfringe reputation

The title is my opinion, and I think it can be objectively said that Celtifringe made at least some mistakes, because of which I came to my opinion. I don't want to force my opinion and want you to decide for yourself from the facts I have collected. Title is basically a summary of thread topic. In the thread I explain myself and based on my proof, you make your own conclusions. I think not responding on Celtifringe's behalf and then rushing to surrender is far worse than anything I've done and I don't find my words offensive (I had no intentions to offend him).

Imagine if players like Mod/Motd made threads saying how shit there team-mates are.

I support freedom of speech and personally would see nothing wrong in that. Those threads could serve as lessons on how to be a better team mate and could help competitive community (I assume that's the kind of community from which Mod's team mates would come) to avoid fishy pros. I also didn't call Celtifringe a bad person and simply proceeded to name his mistakes.

It makes me think you have a bit of an elitist ego.

I always want to perform well and avoid mistakes. If I see someone making a mistake, I want to prevent it. My responses to Celtifringe might appear condescending to some, but I literally was finding his moves weak and wanted to start a conversation on it. It was not a question of me liking his moves or not, but a question if there are better/more achieving moves to make (In my opinion there were ways to improve Celtifringe's moves).
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/9/2018 23:18:07

rakleader
Level 63
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Be positive.
Now you don't have to play 15 games on Small Earth with 8 neutrals.
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 00:19:49


psykkoman
Level 58
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Hmm, autodistributed 2v2 SE with 8 neutrals.
I have better means how to ruin my time :)
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 00:45:04


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 61
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Sees Page

Hmmm...

Sees Drama

Check.

Sees Player Bashing

We getting somewhere...

Feels like someone is trying to sway the opinion of a person I never played with, and with minimal context, as well as a bias directly influencing that said someone.

Annnd Check!

Promptly Leaves, as nothing constructive is going on here.

Edited 5/10/2018 00:45:46
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 05:47:51


thelegend
Level 39
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Definitely nothing constructive. But I'm saying my piece anyway.

Celticfringe is my man! After one 1v1 game (and he destroyed me), he invited me to Celtica, and a while later (when I found out he had) I joined, and even though I ditched for TLA after about two weeks (sorry again, celticfringe. It's my friend's fault ;) he has still personally invited me to every tournament he's hosted. He's an absolute legend, and anybody trying to publicly discredit him will have me to deal with. You don't join a team to criticise the other's gameplay.

In other words; don't diss Celticfringe, he's a legend.
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 06:46:27


Thessalos54[TPBI]
Level 54
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That is a good point that thelegend raises. When you join a team, you join to work together, not criticise each other. If you communicate well then you will do well and if you dont do well you dont go on a rant about how trash the other player is
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 17:29:15


MrTrolldemort
Level 55
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Now this is what I like to see on the forums :)

Edited 5/10/2018 17:30:12
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 19:08:24


Phakh Gokhn 
Level 61
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Celtifringe has invited me to plenty of his tournaments too. Among all of the players I know, he's one of the players who have contributed a lot to Warzone. I generally like Celtifringe, my only issue is how he handled the team games we were in.

You don't join a team to criticise the other's gameplay.

In competitive environment, critique is a crucial part of playing. The purpose of team play is to play for a common goal which means that you need to combine your efforts. If team mate makes a mistake, it affects everyone else in the team as well. If you don't call out team mate's bad moves, it's often the case that you're going to lose the game regardless of your personal efforts. I for example put effort to my moves and seeing that my playing effort doesn't matter in the end feels demotivational. My moves could have profound effect on game, but I would never see it, because due to my team mate's mistakes opponents gain such an advantage, that they steam roll me regardless of what I do. I want that my effort would matter and that requires effort on my team mate's part too. I don't think I'm the only one with such belief.

I think another aspect of playing games (non team-games included too) is self improvement. As you play the game, some things work and others don't and learning what works and what doesn't provides a sense of accomplishment. Learning new things can feel like a journey and lead to new experiences and ways to have fun. I believe if player stops learning, things start to become more repetitive and less enjoyable over time. Not all means of improvement are obvious and some might never been seen by player if he doesn't seek help. Critique opens quicker way to discover new ways to play the game and the more potential moves player knows, the more creative he can be and therefore have more fun.

Each move usually has a specific goal to achieve and not all moves lead to what is expected. In a team game, one player might already know what the outcome of specific move is and if said move doesn't lead to team mate's desired goal, player might say some critique and save his team mate from a disappointment.

Critique might also lead players into conversations which might not have happened otherwise. It might help players to learn more about each other. Critique also encourages critical thinking, trying to prove validity of a suggestion makes players think harder and train their brains more which later leads to quicker decision making and saved time. Critique can also be viewed as part of an intellectual battle over who is wright and wrong which could be a fun experience for some players.

I believe that if players don't want to hear critique, they shouldn't join team games. Most of critique is made not to hurt another player, but to help him and the team. Ignoring critique is highly disrespectful and ignorant to whole team and all of it's players, because it disregards all the effort put into critique.

Some players want to make an argument that critique is usually wrong and unhelpful, but If critique is truly wrong, then it should be very easy to prove that with an counter argument. If false critique is ignored, your critics may never learn of their ideas' shortcomings and by following their bad ideas they might have less fun and make their future team mates have less fun as well. Resolving issues of critiques almost always lead to better game experiences.

If a player wants to play a team game and hear no criticism, he should make it very clear, because making critique is often a natural activity in teams and if your team mate is more experienced than you, you should expect to hear a lot of critique from him. Not because he wants to hurt you, but because he cares about you and your success.

In other words; don't diss Celticfringe, he's a legend.

Such view encourages bad behavior. If Celtifringe thinks that he can get away with what he did in games with me, he might repeat it with more team mates in the future and ruin their experiences. Celtifringe has done many great things, but it doesn't mean that suddenly because of this his wrong doings (in my opinion) stop to matter. It doesn't matter who makes a bad decision, it still will be a bad decision and it should be called out as such.

A person can make some decisions and still be regarded as a legend. If from all the actions person has done 99% are great and only very few are bad, the person overall is still a very great person. We shouldn't try to ignore overall picture because of few dark dots. Nobody's perfect, we all sometimes make mistakes and I believe they are what makes us become better persons. If we ignore mistakes, we might miss a lesson hidden in them.

anybody trying to publicly discredit him will have me to deal with.

The truth fears no challenge. Not all beliefs are true and only through challenge falsehoods can be discovered, so I greatly appreciate your effort put into this discussion.

if you dont do well you dont go on a rant about how trash the other player is

I don't consider this to be a rant. Firstly I'm not angry. Secondly I only wanted to spread public awareness of what could potentially happen in team games with Celtifringe. Thirdly I don't think you're in charge to make my decisions for me. Fourthly my communication could have been much different if Celtifringe cared to voice his concerns. Fifthly, I regret nothing and am proud of my actions. Yes, I did some mistakes, but I'm glad that I did them, because thanks to them I learnt new lessons.

Did you read all my messages? I didn't call Celtifringe a trash player. He might be a good player overall and this might have been just an unique situation Celtifringe has never dealt with before.




Celtifringe just surrendered in another game
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15591269

If he would not surrender and continue playing, I would communicate differently, so his issue of my "offensive language" hopefully would go away eventually through trial and error. While the template is not highly strategic and highly influenced by luck, I still believe there is fun to be had on it. I don't think either Celtifringe or I joined the tournament to surrender all of the games. Currently each new surrendered game is a missed opportunity to have a fun game. It would be great if Celtifringe gave another chance at playing, but I'm not sure if he'll do it. For a player who has showed so much gratitude towards the community, he is very unforgiving, which was unexpected to me.

I see a lot of criticism coming at me. I'm fine with it and am ready to answer questions and make things more clear or to correct my mistakes (if they are proven to be such). I find it strange that Celtifringe is barely questioned. Do you believe he made a right decision not to voice his issues with my communication and surrender in all of games. Would you have acted the same way that Celtifringe has?
I don't recommend joining teams with Celtifringe: 5/10/2018 19:32:55


Onoma94 
Level 60
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I'm impressed at how much internet ink has been used on this thread. Truly wow.
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