Picking team-mates is like picking chocolates, You don't know what you are gonna get. You could get a lovely sweet strawberry person who can communicate all day long! or you could have a nutty one who's so crazy and won't communicate with you.

It's gambling in this sense, you took the risk that you were going to get a perceived good team-mate.. you didn't to your head, tough luck it happens when you play random tournaments with random players. You have a clan for a reason, to play with reliable mates who you know won't let you down!

Also, I find it bizzarely hypocritical that you say Celticfringe is the person who shown poor communication. I say you should've explained your "let's take Europe". You should've listed exact orders or check his orders after he commited. As you say "I don't claim to be very good player, I'm most likely far from it, but Celtifringes moves didn't exactly appear quality play material to me." why didn't you raise him your concerns on his moves?

So In my opinion, this is your fault as much as his for poor play. I believe your frustration turned you into a annoying team-mate as telling the team-mate what he should've done after the turn passed, when there was little communication of the turn before.. There was more talk from you telling him what he should've done than actually discussing the turn when it was on it.

You didn't help yourself here and this thread puts the wool over the eyes that this is Celticfringe's fault when I would argue you didn't exactly help the cause so this is partially your fault for assuming too much foolishly.

To misleadingly create a tittle that discredits Celticfringe reputation, when you yourself have commited some errors in the skill of communicating that you haven't realised. Yet still, figure you will make a thread on the community makes me think worse of you, It makes me think you have a bit of an elitist ego. Imagine if players like Mod/Motd made threads saying how shit there team-mates are.

I find it bizzarely hypocritical that you say Celticfringe is the person who shown poor communication.

In my opinion Celtifringe's communication was worse. My communication had some issues, now I see them better, hopefully will do better next time on that part. I do my best to learn from my mistakes, I hope Celtifringe does so too. I wanted to first hear Celtifringe's opinion on his decisions and then suggest some improvements. I have dealt before with players who don't like long explanations (or sometimes none at all) of what to do, so when facing new team mates (especially towards silent side), i try not to write too much and see if they're eager to talk themselves. Celtifringe also has good winrates on his profile, so I assumed from seeing them that he understands how to play, or at least ask questions when something is not clear (was wrong on it).

this thread puts the wool over the eyes that this is Celticfringe's fault

I didn't claim to have made all the right decisions myself either. If Celtifringe had informed me about his issues, I would have changed my ways of communication.

To misleadingly create a tittle that discredits Celticfringe reputation

The title is my opinion, and I think it can be objectively said that Celtifringe made at least some mistakes, because of which I came to my opinion. I don't want to force my opinion and want you to decide for yourself from the facts I have collected. Title is basically a summary of thread topic. In the thread I explain myself and based on my proof, you make your own conclusions. I think not responding on Celtifringe's behalf and then rushing to surrender is far worse than anything I've done and I don't find my words offensive (I had no intentions to offend him).

Imagine if players like Mod/Motd made threads saying how shit there team-mates are.

I support freedom of speech and personally would see nothing wrong in that. Those threads could serve as lessons on how to be a better team mate and could help competitive community (I assume that's the kind of community from which Mod's team mates would come) to avoid fishy pros. I also didn't call Celtifringe a bad person and simply proceeded to name his mistakes.

It makes me think you have a bit of an elitist ego.

I always want to perform well and avoid mistakes. If I see someone making a mistake, I want to prevent it. My responses to Celtifringe might appear condescending to some, but I literally was finding his moves weak and wanted to start a conversation on it. It was not a question of me liking his moves or not, but a question if there are better/more achieving moves to make (In my opinion there were ways to improve Celtifringe's moves).

Be positive.
Now you don't have to play 15 games on Small Earth with 8 neutrals.

Hmm, autodistributed 2v2 SE with 8 neutrals.
I have better means how to ruin my time :)

Sees Page

Hmmm...

Sees Drama

Check.

Sees Player Bashing

We getting somewhere...

Feels like someone is trying to sway the opinion of a person I never played with, and with minimal context, as well as a bias directly influencing that said someone.

Annnd Check!

Promptly Leaves, as nothing constructive is going on here.

Edited 5/10/2018 00:45:46

Definitely nothing constructive. But I'm saying my piece anyway.

Celticfringe is my man! After one 1v1 game (and he destroyed me), he invited me to Celtica, and a while later (when I found out he had) I joined, and even though I ditched for TLA after about two weeks (sorry again, celticfringe. It's my friend's fault ;) he has still personally invited me to every tournament he's hosted. He's an absolute legend, and anybody trying to publicly discredit him will have me to deal with. You don't join a team to criticise the other's gameplay.

In other words; don't diss Celticfringe, he's a legend.

That is a good point that thelegend raises. When you join a team, you join to work together, not criticise each other. If you communicate well then you will do well and if you dont do well you dont go on a rant about how trash the other player is

Now this is what I like to see on the forums :)

Edited 5/10/2018 17:30:12

Celtifringe has invited me to plenty of his tournaments too. Among all of the players I know, he's one of the players who have contributed a lot to Warzone. I generally like Celtifringe, my only issue is how he handled the team games we were in.

You don't join a team to criticise the other's gameplay.

In competitive environment, critique is a crucial part of playing. The purpose of team play is to play for a common goal which means that you need to combine your efforts. If team mate makes a mistake, it affects everyone else in the team as well. If you don't call out team mate's bad moves, it's often the case that you're going to lose the game regardless of your personal efforts. I for example put effort to my moves and seeing that my playing effort doesn't matter in the end feels demotivational. My moves could have profound effect on game, but I would never see it, because due to my team mate's mistakes opponents gain such an advantage, that they steam roll me regardless of what I do. I want that my effort would matter and that requires effort on my team mate's part too. I don't think I'm the only one with such belief.

I think another aspect of playing games (non team-games included too) is self improvement. As you play the game, some things work and others don't and learning what works and what doesn't provides a sense of accomplishment. Learning new things can feel like a journey and lead to new experiences and ways to have fun. I believe if player stops learning, things start to become more repetitive and less enjoyable over time. Not all means of improvement are obvious and some might never been seen by player if he doesn't seek help. Critique opens quicker way to discover new ways to play the game and the more potential moves player knows, the more creative he can be and therefore have more fun.

Each move usually has a specific goal to achieve and not all moves lead to what is expected. In a team game, one player might already know what the outcome of specific move is and if said move doesn't lead to team mate's desired goal, player might say some critique and save his team mate from a disappointment.

Critique might also lead players into conversations which might not have happened otherwise. It might help players to learn more about each other. Critique also encourages critical thinking, trying to prove validity of a suggestion makes players think harder and train their brains more which later leads to quicker decision making and saved time. Critique can also be viewed as part of an intellectual battle over who is wright and wrong which could be a fun experience for some players.

I believe that if players don't want to hear critique, they shouldn't join team games. Most of critique is made not to hurt another player, but to help him and the team. Ignoring critique is highly disrespectful and ignorant to whole team and all of it's players, because it disregards all the effort put into critique.

Some players want to make an argument that critique is usually wrong and unhelpful, but If critique is truly wrong, then it should be very easy to prove that with an counter argument. If false critique is ignored, your critics may never learn of their ideas' shortcomings and by following their bad ideas they might have less fun and make their future team mates have less fun as well. Resolving issues of critiques almost always lead to better game experiences.

If a player wants to play a team game and hear no criticism, he should make it very clear, because making critique is often a natural activity in teams and if your team mate is more experienced than you, you should expect to hear a lot of critique from him. Not because he wants to hurt you, but because he cares about you and your success.

In other words; don't diss Celticfringe, he's a legend.

Such view encourages bad behavior. If Celtifringe thinks that he can get away with what he did in games with me, he might repeat it with more team mates in the future and ruin their experiences. Celtifringe has done many great things, but it doesn't mean that suddenly because of this his wrong doings (in my opinion) stop to matter. It doesn't matter who makes a bad decision, it still will be a bad decision and it should be called out as such.

A person can make some decisions and still be regarded as a legend. If from all the actions person has done 99% are great and only very few are bad, the person overall is still a very great person. We shouldn't try to ignore overall picture because of few dark dots. Nobody's perfect, we all sometimes make mistakes and I believe they are what makes us become better persons. If we ignore mistakes, we might miss a lesson hidden in them.

anybody trying to publicly discredit him will have me to deal with.

The truth fears no challenge. Not all beliefs are true and only through challenge falsehoods can be discovered, so I greatly appreciate your effort put into this discussion.

if you dont do well you dont go on a rant about how trash the other player is

I don't consider this to be a rant. Firstly I'm not angry. Secondly I only wanted to spread public awareness of what could potentially happen in team games with Celtifringe. Thirdly I don't think you're in charge to make my decisions for me. Fourthly my communication could have been much different if Celtifringe cared to voice his concerns. Fifthly, I regret nothing and am proud of my actions. Yes, I did some mistakes, but I'm glad that I did them, because thanks to them I learnt new lessons.

Did you read all my messages? I didn't call Celtifringe a trash player. He might be a good player overall and this might have been just an unique situation Celtifringe has never dealt with before.

---

Celtifringe just surrendered in another game
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15591269

If he would not surrender and continue playing, I would communicate differently, so his issue of my "offensive language" hopefully would go away eventually through trial and error. While the template is not highly strategic and highly influenced by luck, I still believe there is fun to be had on it. I don't think either Celtifringe or I joined the tournament to surrender all of the games. Currently each new surrendered game is a missed opportunity to have a fun game. It would be great if Celtifringe gave another chance at playing, but I'm not sure if he'll do it. For a player who has showed so much gratitude towards the community, he is very unforgiving, which was unexpected to me.

I see a lot of criticism coming at me. I'm fine with it and am ready to answer questions and make things more clear or to correct my mistakes (if they are proven to be such). I find it strange that Celtifringe is barely questioned. Do you believe he made a right decision not to voice his issues with my communication and surrender in all of games. Would you have acted the same way that Celtifringe has?

I'm impressed at how much internet ink has been used on this thread. Truly wow.

Celtifringe made a good move by attacking with 1 in Iceland. If he would have attacked it full then he would have lost too much armies and wouldn't have been able to keep it.
Now the other team lost armies, and with the army advantage, Celtifringe could attack with 37 Vs 30, and next turn with 26 vs 18.

Celtifringe know how to play games with 8 neutral, and choose the right strategy.

You gave him bad advice and he wisely ignored you, next you did go on and even go as far as saying "see what happens when you don't play smart?"...

I don't know what you thought when saying that, but I can understand Celtifringe not wanting to play anymore with someone who gives poor advice and then saying that he is the one "not playing smart".

Edited 5/10/2018 21:39:41