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Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/21/2018 20:36:09


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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After spending 2 hours coding, I came up with a better simulation method (that is still very limited due to, among other things, what dry-clean-only just said above). The results are a little different. Note: because of the way the program is written, I can semi-manually update these simulation every so often if people are interested in that.
Details of the calculation below. (std=standard deviation, PI=prediction interval)

           mean   (std)    95% PI
1. Sninja 138.65 (13.19) [112-164]
2. TJC    116.04 (11.32) [ 93-138]
3. [WG]   108.52 (11.33) [ 86-130]
4. Stats  104.38 (12.72) [ 79-130]
5. Hydra   85.23 (11.44) [ 63-108]
6. FCC     47.17 (11.09) [ 27-70 ]

               1       2       3       4       5       6
  Sninja  83.67%  11.27%   3.74%   1.20%   0.12%   0.00% 
  TJC     10.17%  45.90%  28.47%  13.41%   2.03%   0.02% 
  WG       3.49%  24.28%  35.79%  30.02%   6.40%   0.02% 
  Stats    2.61%  17.52%  27.50%  38.90%  13.36%   0.11% 
  Hydra    0.06%   1.03%   4.49%  16.45%  76.36%   1.61% 
  FCC      0.00%   0.00%   0.01%   0.02%   1.73%  98.24% 

I personally think the simulations do a good job of matching common sense given the results we have so far and looking at the strength of schedule. The only thing I'm a little weary about, is the score of FCC. I think they may not even got to 27 points, the lower bound of the prediction interval. The reason that the simulations are quite bullish about them, is of course the 10 points from the prior. The program still gives FCC somewhat the benefit of the doubt as it does not know that more boots are still coming.




Juicy math details: in this simulation, I calculated for each clan their score on a logit scale and used this to predict the outcome of the remaining games. First, I again counted the points won and lost by each clan, again adding 10 points won and lost for each clan (burn-in prior). More specifically, I assumed 2 points won and lost against each other clan. From this result, I approximated scores on the logit axis that would reflect the results best using the optim function in R. In more detail: I minimized the squared differences between of the observed logodds calculated as log( win%A / win%B ) in A-B matchups (so win%B is 1-win%A) and the expected logodds for the scores of the 6 clans (score(clan A)-score(clanB)) for the 15 pairings.
Then I made an educated guess for the variance of these estimates where I made sure that it was proportional to the product of the number of points won (including the +10 from the start) and the number of points lost (again including this +10). (If I had more time, I could bootstrap this, but alas.) I chose the formula 10/sqrt(points won*points lost) for the standard deviation because it gives a std of 1 in the case of no information, which I found adequately wide for a non-informative prior. (A team with a score of +2 has a 99% probability to win against a team with a score of -2).
From these calculated scores and their standard deviation, for each simulation a score was drawn. The points in the remaining games were then calculated for each clan under the assumption that the true level of the clan was equal to this simulated score. The win% (for team A) was simply the result of the logodds calculation again, resulting in: sqrt(exp(score A-score B))/(1+sqrt(exp(score A-score B))). Because my input from before did not include the difference between 1v1 and teamgames, I was lazy again and simply assigned wins per 3 points remaining (with a final group of 4 or 5 as appropriate). I think this will not meaningfully influence the results though.
Finally, all these scores were summed and voila!

If anyone wants my R code to improve or add more simulations, feel free to send me a PM or ask here. Note that all CL results were manually input though.

Edited 5/21/2018 20:38:46
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/21/2018 22:32:40


John Titor
Level 56
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hmmm, I guess for stage 2 the results will deviate a lot, at-least for clans bringing in newer players to roster.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/22/2018 04:59:27


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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very interesting stuff Math Wolf.

Hydras got us on Szeurope (which I have never really gotten the hang of, but am forced to play all the time in CL).

I still can't believe that it made it in over Strat 2v2. Two tournaments on EU, FAIL.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 01:20:21


Beren Erchamion 
Level 64
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We've had multiple templates on the same map many times. At the end of the day, the map itself doesn't matter - it's all about the template itself.

Edited 5/23/2018 01:21:05
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 01:33:24


(deleted) 
Level 62
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Because you are bad on a template doesn't make it a fail.

It's a decent template, there aren't enough 2v2 and 3v3 templates and I think nobody would begrudge anybody from making more team templates.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 02:30:04


Master Cowboy 
Level 60
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I do agree that maps being used multiple times is kinda meh, but like beren said, this is nothing new (Gui and 2v2 Gui in CL9).

That being said, despite my hatred of the template, sze i am ok with, because by saying no duplicate uses of maps, you're basically saying Sze should never be played, because let's be honest, despite buns best effort, 3v3 EU is going nowhere.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 02:49:47


(deleted) 
Level 62
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If you are being forced to play Szeurope, recruit more players to play it for you. If you don't like the idea of playing different templates on the same map, You can play on templates on different maps. But to say it's a fail is beyond dumb.

Even more dumb that WG voted the template top 3 in the voting templates. Why would you vote it top 3 if you had no players that were going to play it, and complain about being forced to play it?
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/23/2018 07:05:27


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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I didn't vote. Reza did. I was out of town.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/27/2018 07:36:19


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Comprehensive Update V:

Hmm... my creative train is not working...

Summons Creativity

Well, the summon creativity enchant didn't work either.

RIP Me

I said I wouldn't do an update so late again. But here I am... after forgetting to do the update. Oops. I guess I can't keep myself to my own word... hence I've got nothing fancy to start off this opening except thinking about how tired I am... again. Well, Ill cut to the chase... I apologize if this one isn't as fancy as you want it to be.

Quick Update: By Points Scored:

TJC 			44
Sninja			43
WG			42
Statisticians		35
Hydra			25
FCC			3


Quick Update: By Max Points:

Sninja			197
WG			175
TJC			174
Statisticians		167
Hydra			160
FCC			135

Completed Games: (Bold detonates winner):


1v1: Guiroma

WG vs FCC			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15662522 (5/22)
Hydra vs TJC			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15662521 (5/23)


1v1: French Brawl

Statisticians vs FCC		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15642524 (5/23)

1v1: Elitist Africa:

Statisticans vs Hydra		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15546766 (5/24)
Sninja vs Statisticians		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15478682 (5/24)
Statisticians vs FCC		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15683761 (5/25)

2v2: Final Earth



2v2 Volcano Island

Statisticians vs TJC 		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15580812 (5/26)

2v2 Szeurope

Hydra vs WG 			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15375984 (5/21)

3v3 Europe


3v3 Biomes

TJC vs Statisticians 		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15560273 (5/23)
Sninja vs Statisticians 	https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15389945 (5/26)


Statisticians completed quite a few games for this period, providing them some clarity in their standing and proving that they are contenders for promotion in this clan league. Hydra wins a team game, making FCC the only clan that has not won any teams games thus far. And they have not scored a single point of anything since week one. 1-14 is NOT the way to go for your first set of 1v1 games. Pair that with four 0-1 and 1 0-2 start for team games, and the ship starts sinking quickly, and perhaps a strong second stretch might not even suffice for them to overcome a floundering Hydra. That petrifying gaze has to affect someone I suppose.

Edited 5/27/2018 16:52:01
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/27/2018 07:36:29


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Progressions:



Horse Race:



Analysis:

Nothing is 100% in B at this point. But we can be reasonably confident that this is a race between 4 clans for two slots. (Sninja, WG, Stats, TJC). Sninja has an edge on the other three, but this is defo up for grabs. On the back in, it looks like FCC is still fast-tracked for relegation. Otherwise, not much has changed about these trajectories.

WG surpassed TJC for second place, but this could go any way. (Note that the progressions are including the two games that finished after the supposed update time).

My apologies on the late update. Ill try to be a bit more timely about this next time.

Edited 5/27/2018 17:16:23
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/28/2018 06:11:41


LND 
Level 60
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I believe it is a testament to your tiredness that "bold detonates winners"
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/29/2018 19:08:05


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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Updated simulations!

Details of the calculation at https://www.warzone.com/Forum/301728-clan-league-10-division-b-official-thread?Offset=63. (that's about 10 posts before this one) (std=standard deviation, PI=prediction interval)

           mean   (std)    95% PI
1. Sninja 144.87 (11.22) [120-167]  (+6)
2. Stats  112.86 (10.16) [ 93-133]  (+8)
3. TJC    109.80 (10.28) [ 90-130]  (-6)
4. [WG]   106.21 (10.70) [ 85-126]  (-2)
5. Hydra   83.68 (10.84) [ 63-105]  (-1)
6. FCC     42.58 (10.40) [ 24-64 ]  (-5)

               1       2       3       4       5       6
  Sninja  94.95%   3.87%   0.93%   0.25%   0.00%   0.00% 
  Stats    2.32%  43.29%  32.23%  19.58%   2.58%   0.00% 
  TJC      1.68%  30.88%  34.93%  28.69%   3.85%   0.00% 
  WG       1.03%  21.30%  29.34%  40.53%   7.80%   0.00% 
  Hydra    0.02%   0.66%   2.57%  10.95%  84.95%   0.85% 
  FCC      0.00%   0.00%   0.00%   0.00%   0.85%  99.15% 

I'm as surprised as anyone by these results, so I had to double-check. Turns out the algorithm rates Stats better than TJC and WG at this point, probably because Stats has a win against Sninja while TJC and WG have not. WG actually gets a razor thin edge over TJC according to the algorithm as well when it comes to underlying skill at this point, but TJC comes out on top because they already have secured a few more points. The results for 2-4 are all over the place though, so I have to agree with Aura: it's definitely up for grabs (second place).
However, Sninja is now running away with the win according to the algorithm (about 95% now against 84% last time) and has only slightly more than a single percent probability to not promote (5% last update, 8 days ago). Meanwhile FCC has even less chance than that to not relegate (probability to end fifth has halved). At this point, the algorithm thinks it's almost equally likely that Hydra promotes or relegates. (98.5% that we see Hydra in B again next year if they don't drop out of CL).

Edited 5/30/2018 20:47:12
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/29/2018 20:08:04


Sakata Gintoki
Level 58
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hmmm, from what I understand your algorithm rates Stats better than TJC and WG because Stats are 3-1 vs WG and 2-4 vs TJC, TJC is 1-2 with WG. I guess though Stats have negative win rate vs TJC, because of positive win rate vs WG and TJC's negative win rate vs WG, overall it thinks Stats is suited for 2nd place. Of-course you're weighing the win over Sninja bit more , since they're the clan win the least losses, but places 2-4 can surely go anyway.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/30/2018 20:44:37


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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@Mega Knight: I agree that is likely the case. It's an optimization procedure, so a little black box, but if it wants to optimize the distances between the different teams, it makes sense that Stats is a little closer to Sninja than the others.

And it's already outdated, with FCC just notching their second win, again versus Hydra. Most things are about the same, but for Hydra and FCC that changes a lot:
FCC is now expected to finish with 47.33 points and has a 2.69% probability not to relegate, more than triple what it was before that game!
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 5/30/2018 22:33:55

max™
Level 61
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@Math Wolf does your algorithm only take account the clans as whole or also templates? (since many clans should be a lot stronger in specific templates due to how they have done their line-ups so if your algorithm only takes into account clans themselves as whole then clans who have had more completed games on their stronger templates could be overrated by your algorithm and vice versa and same for clans who have beat "stronger" clans templates where those "stronger" clans are weaker)
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 6/1/2018 18:51:24


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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^good point. Another consideration is that each clan has some teams stronger than others. If you are comparing within templates though, that should not matter, barring a sub.
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 6/1/2018 20:04:38


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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@ max & Chris: I don't take it into account explicitly, because this is simply not possible. If you read the juicy math details, the following part may be of interest though:

"From these calculated scores and their standard deviation, for each simulation a score was drawn. The points in the remaining games were then calculated for each clan under the assumption that the true level of the clan was equal to this simulated score."

Basically, based on finished games, each clan has an underlying skill score, and a measure of variation on that score. When I simulate, I draw from this distribution. So in some runs, a clan may be assumed better than what they seem from the finished games, in other runs, they may be assumed worst. Like this, I take into account that the skill level on different templates may be different and that the finished games are not completely representative (but nevertheless the best guess we have so far).
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 6/2/2018 20:56:13


Math Wolf 
Level 64
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Stats just won 1v1 Guiroma and 1v1 French Brawl (tiebreaker?) tournaments I think?
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 6/3/2018 04:02:53


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Tournament Update:

Hello all. The eve of midseason is upon us. Starting tomorrow, clans can start packing in their new players into the midseason registration window and place them into their lineups. There will be a two week dead period while no new games are created and the Qs finish up their games. I am not sure what the plan is, but depending on how long it takes for Q to finish up it may be a while more than two weeks before new games are created. Nevertheless, we can expect some roster changes going out of the midseason in into the second half of the season.

As math wolf did mention, some clan league tournaments did finish up, with statisticains taking the first two 1v1 tournaments completed.

French Brawl Final Results:



Guiroma Final Results:



Congratulations to Jackie Treehorn and Yeon for an excellent job in securing these tournament wins!

Edited 6/3/2018 04:03:10
Clan League 10: Division B Official Thread: 6/3/2018 04:03:19


Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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Comprehensive Update VI:

Quick Update: By Points Scored:

Sninja 			56
Statisticians		49
TJC			44
WG			42
Hydra			25
FCC			8


Quick Update: By Max Points:

Sninja			191
WG			171
TJC			170
Statisticians		167
Hydra			145
FCC			132

Completed Games: (Bold denotes winner):


1v1: Guiroma (Completed)

Statisticians vs Sninja		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15662523 (6/2)

1v1: French Brawl (Completed)

Sninja vs Hydra			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15642523 (5/29)
Statisticians vs Sninja		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15506237  (5/29)
Sninja vs FCC			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15573143  (5/30)

1v1: Elitist Africa:

Sninja vs Hydra	 		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15683760  (6/2)

2v2: Final Earth

Statisticians vs WG		https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID=15560271 (5/27)
Statisticians vs Hydra		DELETED (6/2)

2v2 Volcano Island

No eruptions to report of at this time...

2v2 Szeurope

Sninja vs TJC 			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID= 	15540384  (5/27)

3v3 Europe

FCC vs Hydra 			https://www.warzone.com/multiplayer?GameID= 	15540384  (5/29)

3v3 Biomes

Let them think on it a bit.



Edited 6/3/2018 06:02:36
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