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You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 15:05:14


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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So, I'm normally not the person to post comics on public forums, but I think this one is quite worthwhile for the Warlight community. Please do with the information in it what you want. It's a few days old, so some of you may have seen it float around already.

First of all, a few words of warning:
* If you want to comment, it would be nice to read it all, with an open mind and don't stop halfway. But hey, you can of course.
* The author seems to write it from an America-centric, more liberal background. Sadly enough, this reduces the quality of the message for a more general audience. The comic likely has more value if you can look past that.
* The main concept described here likely doesn't work as trivially as the author explains. It's obviously OK to be critical about this in a reasonable way. However, there is sufficient scientific evidence that it's correct in at least some situations and part of broader series of related concepts. (see also: cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias among others for example)

I was doubting in which forum to post it. There is a clear link with strategy as well, and making the same or different choices in games based on previous experiences and belief. For those uninterested in political or social arguments, I'm pretty sure that is an interesting application as well.
Nevertheless, I think it's most relevant in Off-topic based on some of the discussions going on here. I fear some will (try to) derail the topic, as usual, but so be it.

A link to the original comic, which includes sources for the presented facts, can be found at the bottom.





























Link to the original, with sources: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe_clean

Edited 5/7/2017 15:06:32
- downvoted post by Wulfhere
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 15:29:07


Norman 
Level 58
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Those comments so far...

As for the comic, it's nicely made. I don't know about the biology explanation with analyzing the brain, usually those studies tend to make a shitload of fuss about little to no actual evidence. However what I indeed have found true is that it's almost impossible to letting oneselves core believes getting challenged. As for myself I have found myself surprisingly blind to counter arguments in the past, not that I actively fought them off, I just didn't see the most obvious. Sometimes some short of real external shock has to happen for a reevaluation.
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 15:42:57


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Regardless of whether the underlying mechanisms mentioned here are accurate, the overall effect is the same. Cognitive dissonance is a real issue for us all, and something we each need to take into account whenever we hear a new piece of information, whether we instinctively believe or disbelieve it.

Oh and btw, if you didn't go to the link to see the original, you can see that each fact presented is actually sourced by links in the numbers below them.
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 17:38:30


Belgian Gentleman 
Level 56
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this thread got bookmarked on the same day it got posted. And that for the first time ever on the off-topic forum. I'm calling suspicious on that
- downvoted post by machine-washed bliss
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 18:35:09


Cata Cauda
Level 59
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I am very disappointed by this comic. It advocates an open mind, but yet is very US-Americacentric.
It only mentions US-Politicians and measures Napoleon in Imperial-units.

Edited 5/7/2017 18:35:28
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 18:44:25


Shredtail2 
Level 57
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Huh. This was really cool to read. Indeed very thought provoking. Thank you for that.
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 20:11:00


ᚾᛁᚢᚱᛏ 
Level 62
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The funniest part of it was that the part of it,that said that it from an evolutionary standpoint made sense, since that part made no sense what so ever
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 20:51:05


Strategery
Level 56
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Honestly, I couldn't care less if George Washington had a slave's teeth. The important part is whether he killed the slave and took his teeth or whether he took teeth off of a dead or dieing slave. OR did somebody else already kill the slave and the teeth were going to be thrown away but George Washington decided not to be wasteful? Or did his parents make that decision for him? Did George Washington know he had slave's teeth?

More evidence is needed before I can make a moral judgement on the character of the USA's founder.

The only "fact" that I was insulted by was that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a Socialist but I will cede that even greedy, power hungry, Socialists can have a few good ideas, if only by accident.
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 20:53:02


Eklipse
Level 57
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I disagree with anything which implies change is always good, which is very false. Change can be very bad in some cases, some ideas should be intensely rejected. Change can be good too, but it all depends on whats changing. Changing the right things makes the world better. Change the wrong things and it all falls apart.
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 21:19:41


ps 
Level 60
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this comic sums up well science vs belief. people could use with more critical thinking, too bad it's not practiced in schools much.
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 21:29:45


Strategery
Level 56
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^ An intelligent, well-educated, productive populace is good for tax revenue. A politically active and attentive populace is dangerous.
You won't believe...: 5/7/2017 21:32:52


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Every idea must have some thought to make and some thought to take, eklipse. The best way to change your ideas though is if you do the reading yourself.

I am very disappointed by this comic. It advocates an open mind, but yet is very US-Americacentric.
It only mentions US-Politicians and measures Napoleon in Imperial-units.


Of course.
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
- downvoted post by Wulfhere
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 01:41:03


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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Wally intentionally misinterprets the comic just to be a dick
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 02:39:41


Wulfhere
Level 48
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No he just can't grasp it
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 14:38:20


{Canidae} Kretoma 
Level 58
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Both are not really good at understanding others or debating.
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 15:20:30


Strategery
Level 56
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Wally, the point of the comic is not to change your beliefs. The point is to change your neurological reaction to opposing viewpoints. The comic doesn't want you to go from Pro-Choice=>Pro-life. but rather not be insulted when somebody says something Pro-life.

I think the comic advocates for a good "state of mind" when discussing politics but nothing beyond that.
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 16:21:33


Wally Balls 
Level 59
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Wally, the point of the comic is not to change your beliefs


I'm not interested in what you think the point was, I'm only interested in what it actually says.

Maybe you should write a letter to the comic and tell him what he said does not support the point you believe he was trying to make.
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 16:23:52


Wally Balls 
Level 59
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Change here refers to changing ones beliefs. That's not what I *think* the point was, that's what he actually said when he repeatedly referred to our beliefs changing in response to hearing new opinions.
You won't believe...: 5/8/2017 16:24:04


Strategery
Level 56
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Well said, Tabby. Overall, I think science will advance to a point where we won't need traditional pregnancy to create people. When such a procedure becomes cheap enough for large scale use, I imagine that the government or private charities will take unwanted pregnancies and serve them to term before putting them in foster care or adoption services.

Until then, I consider myself Pro-life, with exceptions. Namely, life of the mother. Additionally, birthing somebody with a painful, untreatable disability can be considered cruel.

...

Damn, I was ninjaed by Wally.

Quote from comic: "I'm not here to... tell you what to believe." Case closed.

Edited 5/8/2017 16:35:03
- downvoted post by Wally Balls
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