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Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 16:22:12


Deadman 
Level 64
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Based on the responses so far, we can agree that this was short notice. So let's go ahead with CL9 as planned(without the rules stated yesterday).

  • Any player present in a clan's roster must also be a member of that clan on the date of the submission deadline.
  • If a player with accounts in 2 clans is enlisted by both clans, they will be removed from both clans' rosters. The player can clarify with the CL panel who they wish to play for.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/14/2017 11:19:52


krunx 
Level 63
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Based on the responses so far, we can agree that this was short notice. So let's go ahead with CL9 as planned(without the rules stated yesterday).


I really appreciate, that the panel did recognize the posts here and had the courage to change this.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.


Personally I would not differ between alts and mains. There are way to many reason to not play with your main for example:
having main in a clan that does not participate in CL
beeing in your early day clan with your main and having your rl-friends over there, but want to play in CL for a more competetive clan
...
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/14/2017 16:20:47


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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Good that I read this today, when decisions were redone.

I remember when Clan leaders voted for Templates and its Order they agreed to the rules to that Date.

So, You have made the right decision to redo it.
So the Deadline ist again 21st January?
The Main is the Account who played in CL8?

If so, please also Change the information at the Spreadsheet again.

PS: I would like to participate in the discussion to Mains/alts

AND if you really really really really have to Change rules like this, PLEASE do not only in a thread. Write PMs to both Clan leaders or write it in a Chat games in its entirety

If you write 'the Deadline for roster Lineup Submission is 1/21/2017'
And below that 'please See [Link to this thread]' like you did in the vote game
Then I only think that the information you have stated before can also be seen in this thread.
That was really close that I even read it. Wasnt really active in Threads the Last time.

But I am happy that the rules were changed to the previous.

Edited 1/14/2017 16:40:13
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/15/2017 06:04:22


TBest 
Level 60
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Question
If we have a low level member who wants to play, but are not high enough level, can they use another player's alt to play? (Oh, also taking about mains, the higher level alt would win on points etc. So we could claim it was a main' ey? Also, the alt would be member of the clan too, ofc.)

Also, what if the alt in question was another player's main?

Simplest is ofc to just say: No, you can't use an alt. But given that you can't really control alt use anyway, and levels =/= skills, well? Why not allow it?

PS, It is so nice to not have to answer hard questions :)

Edited 1/15/2017 06:13:16
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/15/2017 13:14:18


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Question
If we have a low level member who wants to play, but are not high enough level, can they use another player's alt to play?

Yes please! I totally approve of this question!
In our clan, we are currently massively levelling up two members to be able to join while I have a high level alt with a membership laying around that fulfills all the level requirements!
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/16/2017 10:03:48


Deadman 
Level 64
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If we have a low level member who wants to play, but are not high enough level, can they use another player's alt to play?
You cannot use another player's alt to play.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/16/2017 14:19:11

Mike
Level 59
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However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.

I'll give my 2cts then.

So this rule along with the roster rule, means that clans are defined as 25 players that existed in a clan at the time the league started and can slowly atrophy over time with no new additions. I don't feel like that aligns with the definition of a true clan. I strongly feel this rule should be removed. It creates headaches for everyone.

But you re free to register 25 players to prevent a clan from being short of players any time, isnt that enough ? The beauty of this rules (and the no alt rules) makes the definition of a clan stronger, spot on for a "Clan" league, and benefits to "stronger" clans not only in skills but in "loyalty factor" which can now also be represented : the ones who manage to keep their members. Moreover, if a member quits the clan in a bad mood, he cant ruin the clan's results by playing bad purposely, as he has to be replaced.

having main in a clan that does not participate in CL
beeing in your early day clan with your main and having your rl-friends over there, but want to play in CL for a more competetive clan

It depends how we see and want to see clans and CL. For me its like a country at olympic games, which like CL have values like honour our flag, be loyal to it and represent it to the best you can. And members of not seeded countries can not partipate. Members who have fiends in another country can not play for that country. Solution for them would be to naturalise before Olympics start.

Edited 1/16/2017 14:21:06
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/16/2017 17:13:47


Φιλώτας
Level 62
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I have the opinion that if statistician low leveled players did not manage to make it on time, we should allow an alt to be used by one of them. It would be a pity to lose a solid clan due to lack of level
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/16/2017 17:29:29


master of desaster 
Level 66
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Why not just create a kongregate account and reach the required level within a day?
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/17/2017 18:04:00


ZeroBlindDragon 
Level 60
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Is the deadline for submitting a lineup still on January 21 or was it pushed back to January 28? I remember MotD wrote about this in his post before editing it out.

Thanks!
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/17/2017 22:20:35


Deadman 
Level 64
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28th Jan is fine so as to avoid confusion.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/18/2017 23:42:30


DontAttackMe
Level 58
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do any clans want to practice some games (any of the templates, but I am looking specifically right now at Deadmans Rome) against FCC? PM me.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/25/2017 17:59:32


Deadman 
Level 64
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Just another reminder that the deadline for roster submission is 1/28/2017 00:00:00 UTC. Any clan which hasn't sent their roster will not be able to participate. If your clan leaders are away/inactive for any reason, make sure you have someone acting as backup.

Edited 1/26/2017 16:59:42
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/26/2017 05:20:48


KKND
Level 60
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@deadman, you should add timezone I guess
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/26/2017 06:04:01

Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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I am pretty sure its UTC, but correct me if I am wrong.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/26/2017 17:06:45


Deadman 
Level 64
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Added UTC
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 18:54:44


Deadman 
Level 64
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This is the final reminder that lineups are due in 5 hours(1/28/2017 00:00:00 UTC).

Clans still pending:
  • Group QF
    • REGL
    • LEA
    • TLW
    • World League

Everyone has had almost 3 weeks. If your clan hasn't submitted a line-up, we will start without you. Chase down your leaders and get them to submit a line-up.

Edited 1/28/2017 06:12:12
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 19:28:32


linberson 
Level 62
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Group A: 5/7 missing.

And I thought I was late!
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 19:57:37


Hades 
Level 64
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I'm so hyped
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 19:57:54


Hades 
Level 64
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The spreadsheet looks awesome
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 20:33:52

Aura Guardian 
Level 62
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T- 3.5 hours and still that many clans without a roster? :S
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 20:46:35


Master Turtle 
Level 62
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Turtles just submitted
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 21:14:37


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Is it just me, or might it be potentially (but probably not practically) unfair for One not having its roster yet with Beren one of the people knowing the rosters of the other teams?
I imagined Masters and One being the ones that would have their rosters immediately to avoid conflict of interest.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 21:21:42


master of desaster 
Level 66
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motd didn't interact in any way on masters roster decision more than saying which templates he wanted to play

EDIT: However, i can imagine Bren to abuse all his powers!!!

Edited 1/27/2017 21:35:07
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 21:43:01

[NL] Sander
Level 60
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Submitted for NL
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 22:02:39


Norman 
Level 58
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Is it just me, or might it be potentially (but probably not practically) unfair for One not having its roster yet with Beren one of the people knowing the rosters of the other teams?

I believe you get better results by putting good guys on each position without getting distracted by opponent clans lineups. It's not like WarLight players having a rock paper scissors relationship. Only if a clan truly believes, they can't get a foothold against all opponent teams in a certain tournament, it might be beneficial to not waste their best guys on that tournament. However this seems more like an abstract thought experiment to me.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 22:13:36


Deadman 
Level 64
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Is it just me, or might it be potentially (but probably not practically) unfair for One not having its roster yet with Beren one of the people knowing the rosters of the other teams?

I don't see any way for us to get around it. We could make a system which took rosters as input without us knowing about it, but the same doubts can be leveled against us even then. Besides, personally I wouldn't want to waste my time designing such a system.

I also agree with Norman. Knowing an opponent means nothing to me. If I was a clan leader, I would play to my strengths and not care about anything else(I would assume our line-ups reflect that although I haven't checked).

We could stipulate that the orangizers' clans have to submit their rosters before everyone else in the future. But then these clans could easily argue that they're being given lesser time for no fault of their own, when their members devote so much time and effort to make this competition possible.

So while I acknowledge your concern, I'm going to have to ask you to just trust us I guess.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 22:58:46


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Don't worry, I obviously trust you guys, that's why I added the "potentially (but probably not practically)" part in the sentence. :-)

I guess it might make sense, as a general rule of thumb for future seasons, to have a helper from a different division (B or C) taking care of receiving the rosters of A division when all organizers are in the A division. I agree that submitting your own roster early, might not be fair in the other direction.

Of course, as mod mentioned for Masters, simply not giving input to the organizers in the roster of their clan, is an option as well, but might similarly be unfair if an organizer happens to be a clan leader.

On the other hand, looking at the many late submissions from A division: maybe they all waited until just before the deadline to make sure you guys couldn't abuse your power even if you wanted to! ;-)

Edited 1/27/2017 22:59:05
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 23:13:54


Quicksilver 
Level 61
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Simple -

The organizers' clans have to submit their roster one day earlier. It's only one day, barely any different. Then other clans have the option of submitting on the final day if they like.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/27/2017 23:42:22


Semicedevine 
Level 60
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If you know the rosters of the other clans, you'll be able to tell if there is a specific trend of a commonpiece that each clan is focusing on with increased priority, having it be either 1v1s, 2v2s, or 3v3s.

Then you build a roster to counter it based on this logic. You focus on the templates that none of the majority of other clans focus on.

The perfect example of this, though extraordinarily rare, 5 out of 6 clans in the same division focus lopsidedly towards the 1v1 games. They end up splitting the points almost evenly among each of them 20% as no single clan can decisively win a tournament that all the other clans are putting their complete effort into as well.

The last clan focuses on team games. They are able to grab 100% of the points from the 2v2 or 3v3 games simply from facing weak opponents.

It is the same amount of skill put into a certain area of the league, only with different amounts of points eligible for claim from it.

The point of this post is that no matter what with the current organizing group there will always be potential flaws with the system anyways, but it doesn't matter because I trust them enough that they won't use it to their advantage which is what I feel like all of us here should do at the moment instead of criticizing this topic any further as any solutions to it seem highly impractical right now.

EDIT: Ignore this post; WHAT QUICKSILVER SAID^

Edited 1/27/2017 23:49:32
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