There's very few racists that appreciate being called racist. Unfortunately, we stigmatized the label far more than the actual act of racism.

Doesn't matter a bit to me, though, if The Lord, Adrijan, and others get triggered when they get called what they are. The game we're playing is already stacked in my favor- it's why I make no effort to even bother with their approval.

Edited 11/28/2016 00:28:17

Tabby is a racist

Tabby is a racist.

@knyte: if you think the White working class is becoming obsolete, what do you think will happen with all the uneducated blacks and hispanics who statistically earn less, are more often unemployed and commit more crime?

Tabby, stop feeding trolling. Just downvote and move on. Seriously.

You might be sarcastic, but there are a couple things that are important to me.

1: Did the spouse of the person I'm voting for engage in consensual sex.

2: Can a 67 year old use emails.

After typing those out in simple sentences, they might seem really unimportant, but that's how I choose my President. Plus, the baby kill'n, gun stealing, socialist stuff.

Now don't you be trying to talk me out of it, with your insulting liberal brainwashing education sorta stuff. You might think you're smart with all your fancy 6 letter words, but every time you type one of them out that I can't pronounce I'm going to figure you're insulting me, and vote against the liberal elites.

---

@The Lord:

If a robot can do your job for cheaper and you're not willing to learn a new field, it's gg. Don't expect the rest of us to try and "bring back" jobs in economic sectors where we lost our comparative advantage decades ago. If I wake up tomorrow and it turns out that someone in Vietnam or Poland- or a robot- has the same skills as me and is able to do my job for cheaper, I'm not going to demand that you try and keep my job alive. I'm going to use every resource at my disposal to build my skills and remain economically productive. When light-bulbs got invented, we had to leave candle-making behind- that's just how markets and technology work- if you're not competitive, don't expect to get a job. Work to build new skills- those resources exist and in quite overwhelming quantities at this point, market yourself, and if you legitimately see no way out, don't decide to shove other people under the bus when you're offered opportunities to fix your life.

I really don't buy into the "robots will take all of our jobs" argument, either- it's just the same pattern of automation ending old fields and creating new industries, except much faster this time. I'm fine with basic income in any case (since it scraps the bureaucracy of welfare and allows for more entrepreneurship by giving everyone a baseline of capital to work with), but if you're a person there will always be some way for you to contribute to society. No excuses.

Latinos/Hispanic workers at least (for the most part) didn't vote against free/cheap job training that would allow them to transition to more competitive sectors. If you're a member of the white working class, you had your shot, you turned it down- and regardless of the reasons you had, that's gg. No brownies for you.

Edited 11/28/2016 02:04:52

If I wake up tomorrow and it turns out that someone in Vietnam or Poland- or a robot- has the same skills as me and is able to do my job for cheaper, I'm not going to demand that you try and keep my job alive

Something you're forgetting is that the policies you advocate for ran up the costs of hiring Americans and that drove the jobs elsewhere. You pretend that it's Americans just being outcompeted, but that's simply not the case, it's regulations, taxes and the minimum wage that drove jobs out of the country.

^^How is the white working class community inherently different from the Latino one?

"Ohohoh, you see dear chap, the Latinos agree with me and the whites don't, so the whites are clearly mentally deficient and inferior ohohoh!"

Something you're forgetting is that the policies you advocate for ran up the costs of hiring Americans and that drove the jobs elsewhere. You pretend that it's Americans just being outcompeted, but that's simply not the case, it's regulations, taxes and the minimum wage that drove jobs out of the country.

Which policies are we talking about? Free trade? Minimum wages? Not building a wall on our border?

If someone has a comparative advantage, that's it. That's game. We can't stop it in the medium or long term- the only solution is to move to industries where we have a comparative advantage.

Do we have policies that are making coal/steel more expensive here than abroad? Of course we do. Will getting rid of those policies make enough of a dent to get a meaningful number of these jobs "back" from China- no.

Get with the times, or go die. Take out the sugarcoating we have in our political system, and that's the cold reality we have to work with.

There's massive deficits of skilled labor in plenty of other fields where we have a serious comparative advantage (that will only grow as our labor deficits shrink)- shifting our resources there is the only path forward. Not repealing NAFTA (I'm certainly not gonna enjoy having to pay state income tax in Texas when our economy and government revenues shrink as a result). Not throwing arbitrary taxes at people and industries you don't like. Just adapting rationally to actual market conditions.

It's called the market; I thought you claimed to understand it.

"Ohohoh, you see dear chap, the Latinos agree with me and the whites don't, so the whites are clearly mentally deficient and inferior ohohoh!"

I'm not here to divide along racial lines- if you're a Rust Belt worker, you're not going to get your manufacturing job back. And if you're a Rust Belt worker who just voted against a comprehensive job training program because you think that "renegotiating our trade deals" or forcing Apple to make iPhones domestically with the shitty excuse for labor you put on the table, you're a special kind of stupid.

Edited 11/28/2016 02:39:51

Which policies are we talking about? Free trade? Minimum wages?

Minimum wage (and economic interventions as a whole). Trumps not an advocate of taking this away, unfortunately, but it is one of the things you can attribute job loss to.

I'm not here to divide along racial lines- if you're a Rust Belt worker, you're not going to get your manufacturing job back

I would if you're not putting your regulations on the table forcing companies to move overseas.

shitty excuse for labor

"You see, it's all your fault, I obviously did not make you more expensive for companies to work with! It's all your fault I dindu nuffin!" (Now comes Knyte claiming dindu nuffin is racist)

Edited 11/28/2016 02:42:08

Smegma is a racist.

I seriously doubt that taking away the minimum wage will satisfy Joe in Pennsylvania. He still loses out to a worker in China who has much, much more purchasing power for that $2/day he gets than Joe will for whatever the lowest amount it is that he'll accept.

I'm also opposed to direct economic interventions- I (presumably) agree with you that it's extremely preferable for any intervention (which has to be seriously justified) to simply generate new incentives or disincentives instead of throwing a wrench in the market and directly preventing actors from trying out certain paths. That's a big part of why Trump's trade policy- especially his proposed restrictions- is extremely stupid and does not hold up to the slightest amount of economic scrutiny.

I would if you're not putting your regulations on the table forcing companies to move overseas.

That's an extremely flawed narrative. It's not regulations. It's the reality that there's much, much cheaper labor in China than we can get here- because of poverty, because of access to resources, and because of a lack of human rights. Scrap the EPA regulations, scrap minimum wage laws, and I guarantee to you that Rust Belt workers will come back and complain- at the very least about perpetually declining wages.

No serious economic analyst- i.e., someone who got a goddamn degree in the field and is a respected researcher, not someone who just reads shit online- backs your claim here. It's just a straight-up consequence of free trade that we're forced to either maintain comparative advantages or give up on industries where we don't have them.

Regulations certainly won't stop robots, either.

In fact this goes beyond manufacturing jobs. It is easy for people in East Europe and Asia to do the same thing we do here for less.

That's exactly the case. Unskilled labor is cheaper abroad, period, largely due to much lower cost of living and higher poverty rates. Regulations don't make our labor cheaper, for sure, but they are not among the key reasons that we no longer have a comparative advantage in car manufacturing (we weren't going to sustain that for a long period of time, anyway).

Edited 11/28/2016 02:48:11

Knyte is truly cancerous. He refuses to admit that lowering the cost of labor would make many companies move over here to reduce other costs (transporting the assembled products from Asia to here f.e). He's stuck in his own bubble and always will be, seeing reality not as it is but through stained glass, where him and what he supports can do no wrong and he is always purely logical with no irrationality.

2/10 I've had more intelligent discussion with Karl

No, I'm saying that scrapping regulations would not meaningfully reduce the cost of labor to the point that we get companies building iPhones here instead of in China.

There's economic realities we can't change driving this, not regulations. It's partly because China has a much lower cost of living and also partly because China is just in a much better position than we are to run a factor-driven economy.

Manufacturing jobs are our past, not our future; I don't see why you're so hellbent on expanding that sector in the first place. We straight up do not have a comparative advantage there and have no path to building one in the medium or long term.

You're saying I'm in a bubble, but at the same time you have to put words in my mouth to get an argument you have a hope of responding to.

Manufacturing economic narratives out of thin air (and sketchy online libertarian publications), though, I guess that's an industry you'd have a comparative advantage in.

@Tabby: Protectionism is the stupidest economic policy possible. You simply cannot disguise economic realities- especially not at the immense cost you now place on consumers. I'd recommend picking up an economics textbook (econ 101 should do) and learning about absolute vs. comparative advantages- there's no way that we can be economically shut out in all industries at once. There's always somewhere for us to move to.

Edited 11/28/2016 02:53:35

@knyte: I'm not disagreeing with comparative advantage. I'm saying that it's blacks and hispanics who go down before us palefaces do. So your joy about the plight of white blue collars is premature.

That said, I have nothing at stake if industrial jobs come back or not since I'm not part of the working class. I find it strange, though, that you keep insinuating that the only real reason anyone would vote Trump is because they are racist, sexist, homophobic scum. Either you dislike PC -> alt-right -> racist, or you want to keep your job -> want to take them away from blacks & Mexicans -> racist.

How do blacks have anything to do with the issue of rural white jobs?

Because there is not just white working class but also black working class.

Also as I have said before, racism, sexism and homophobia are independent of each other. Don't ever combine them because they are unrelated to each other.

I sincerely hope you will be able to overcome your autism someday because that way you just get sarcasm instead of it having to be explained to you.

@knyte: I'm not disagreeing with comparative advantage. I'm saying that it's blacks and hispanics who go down before us palefaces do. So your joy about the plight of white blue collars is premature.

Last I checked the rural Midwest ain't exactly a hotbed of diversity. Urban workers will be hit, no doubt, but they're in a far better position to move to new industries than people living in towns that don't have a ton of economic diversification. Geographically, there's not a whole lot we can do to save these regions in the short-term, just the people.

I find it strange, though, that you keep insinuating that the only real reason anyone would vote Trump is because they are racist, sexist, homophobic scum.

I've explicitly stated otherwise on multiple occasions. Again, if you have to put words in my mouth to have something you can argue against, odds are you're the one living in a bubble full of narratives.

Edited 11/28/2016 03:44:57

I've explicitly stated otherwise on multiple occasions. Again, if you have to put words in my mouth to have something you can argue against, odds are you're the one living in a bubble full of narratives.

I guess you have, but you also said, among other things:

There's very few racists that appreciate being called racist. Unfortunately, we stigmatized the label far more than the actual act of racism.

Doesn't matter a bit to me, though, if The Lord, Adrijan, and others get triggered when they get called what they are.

and:

I certainly don't see you as a racist and obviously don't see my friends who support(ed) Trump as racists. I'm talking about a specific (but large) subset of Trump voters- the "hidden white voters" in the Midwest who swung this election.

So your message I a bit unclear, can you understand why someone would get the idea that you think all Trump voters are racists?

Is this discussion taking internet space away from important discussions such as killing all the people who have sex?

2/10 I've had more intelligent discussion with Karl

arguably knyte is the most intelligent talker on WL after the sons of the Adduti family so don't lie.

that said, he is pretty elitist. I went back in time to 1789 to see his forefather killed in the anti-elitist revolution in France.

Edited 11/28/2016 04:48:44

Жұқтыру is a racist