Brendan BL'ed.

Well said, knyte. Thank you.

Well, that's a bit... sexist. And you're the one calling people pathetic.

Edited 7/16/2015 04:08:51

@knyte

Cite my words and tell me, what in them makes me homophob, misogyne, hatred promoter, abuser, and even guy promoting violence.

Edit: Or whoever who agrees with knyte's opinion

Edited 7/16/2015 04:06:12

IIRC, you called your teammate a "fag," later referred to him as "gay," and then called your opponents "women."

Clearly, you weren't using these terms to express approval- in fact, it looks like you were using them as insults or slurs and then criticizing your opponents for being "politically correct" when they were calling you out for using other people's identities as insults.

Here's the logic:

If "woman" or "gay" or "fag" is an insult, you're just perpetuating the idea that people shouldn't want to be women or homosexuals (after all, it's only an insult if it's something that you shouldn't be)- just like calling someone a "Polack" implies that being Polish is inferior. Imagine living in 1840s California where "chink" or "Oriental" were insults, 1900s Europe where people who weren't even anti-Semites casually called other people "dirty Jews" or 1950s America where it was common to make fun of other guys by calling them "women" or "fags." All of these insults were based on the idea that it was bad to be Asian/Jewish/feminine/gay/etc. or that these groups were bad people. By using these identities as insults, they also promoted the idea that these people were outsiders, worthless, or less than human in some way- that they were some sort of societal stain or cancer that needed to be wiped out or "put back in their place." That sort of language ultimately only promoted misbehavior toward these groups by making it normal to hate them or look down upon them. "Oh, those guys had their gold stolen and had their wives killed? Doesn't matter- they were dirty chinks!" "Heh. Did you read the news about Kristallnacht? Those filthy, dirty Jews finally got what was coming to them!" "Haha Brian beat the shit out of that homo fag. He'd have been fine, too, if we weren't so fucking homo!"

Really, it's not even about the minorities. It's about us- when we behave this way and act like our fellow human beings are worse in some way just because they're different, that their identities somehow make them inherently worse, we lose a little bit of our own humanity.

I understand that you were frustrated- I would be, too, in your situation. I would've probably called my teammate a "shit player" or said, "Fuck this guy I'm blacklisting him and you should too. He doesn't even know how to tell that he's winning." While loaded with swear words, those wouldn't have been problematic in any way- I'd just be expressing anger. But when you call your teammate a "fag," that's when you cross a line- unless there was something I missed in there that made people's gender or sexual orientation relevant.

And look- I'm not going to say that you're homophobic or hate women. For all I know, you're probably pretty nice to people you know in real life and treat everyone right. Most people are just normal, nice guys (and gals), and a lot of us make the mistake of using language that's just not so nice toward other people. But in the end it ends up not only hurting those other people but also alienating us from other people who feel just as we do and- just like us- would appreciate knowing that someone's on their side when they're going through tough times. So I'd respect it if you started voicing your anger without marginalizing already-marginalized people.

Edited 7/16/2015 04:33:56

Uummm... you used "gay" and "female" as personal insults?

Edit: yep. knyte pretty much nailed it.

Edited 7/16/2015 04:22:19

sad though, i doubt anyone's gonna get suspended for saying fag, but i have been suspended for saying the f word. not that i didn't deserve to be suspended, but i do think fag is worse.

^ Haha I also got a warning from Warlight for using "fuck" a few times in a game. Hopefully they'll be less willing to suspend/ban us over petty/harmless things now that we've burned money on this game... but on the other hand, I guess that would also make us more likely to buy memberships again since we'd lose our main accounts. Could go either way.

That was weird that Tomezzz surrendered, to be fair...

Anyway, first of all the word "fag" was not used.

Secondly, I find it weird that everyone seems to consider "gay" and "women" to be insults, I don't hold them to be insults any more than the words "straight" and "male". I'm concerned for you guys... Even if you consider them insults they are pretty weak ones, the only real insult of any worth here was the word "bitch". But I guess none of you here care too much about the identity of female dogs...

@knyte

You are almost right. Indeed, I didn't express approval. I expressed my averse for gayish behaviour in men. Not hating gays, but hating gayish behaviour.
There are gays with manly behaviour...

Another misunderstanding: You claim I insulted women. Completely wrong! I insulted womanly behaviour in men. Further, I am perpetuating the idea that men shouldn't act like women, not that people shouldn't want to be woman.

Indeed, I said he's gay, but I was referring to his behaviour.

You are confusing concepts, because hating gay is different from hating gay behaviour and hating women behaviour in men is completely different from hating women.

Fleecemaster:
Thank you, I am happy to see not all hope is lost, haha
People should be more flexible

Edited 7/16/2015 04:49:36

@berdan

You specifically referred to your teammate- not his behavior- as gay and a fag. You specifically referred to your opponents- not their behavior- as women.

I understand if you can sleep better at night knowing that you've done your part to protect masculinity, but regardless of whether you dislike the behavior, you marginalized these identities. You didn't criticize "gay behavior" or "womanly behavior" in anyone else- no one in that game was behaving in a homosexual or traditionally femine way, anyway.

You used these terms to insult people for doing something completely unrelated to gender identity or sexual orientation. You attacked people, not behavior.

If you meant to do the latter, save it for situations where people are actually "behaving gay" or behaving in a "feminine" way- and try to be a bit clearer. There's nothing about "he's gay" that suggests your attacking the behavior and not the identity.

@Fleece

You're correct in that words like "black," "gay," and "woman" aren't inherently insulting. However, used as slurs, they very much are. When you associate "gay" with unlikeable behavior (like that of berdan's teammate), you're not using it in anything close to a neutral way- far from it. Imagine that I started saying "that's so white" every time someone did something I didn't like. Clearly, over time, my usage of the word "white" (especially if adopted by other people) would become an insult. Similarly, the word "gay," used the way berdan did... was pretty obviously used as an insult.

Because, you know, words can be used in more than one way- and get their definitions and connotations from usage.

Edited 7/16/2015 04:57:05

I may be a newbie here, but what exactly did you intend to express when you called them "women" and "gay" in such an obviously heated tone? Also, are you absolutely sure that your opponents are men? There was nothing in the chat or their profiles to suggest that. Also, the fact that you called your teammate "Idiot" and "Bitch" and then when you were called out you immediately responded with "communist piece of shit."

In short:

Ummmmmm.....What?

@knyte

Of course I wouldn't write "your behaviour is gayish". I use common language!

It's all about context. If Tomezz said he's gay and I replied: "oh my god, you gay!" then yes,
but I don't even know him, I wrote only basing on his behaviour, not his anonymous internet nickname and him as a person

@Mistress

I assume they are, because very few women play warlight, such as other online games.

Edited 7/16/2015 05:05:13

Yeah, but there was no evidence of gay behavior there either. You could've just called him a "shit player" or a "bad teammate." But nope- clearly quitting a game you're winning is something only gay people do.

Here's an example of a proper insult: Fuck that, and fuck you.

because very few women play warlight

I wonder why.

Edited 7/16/2015 05:05:38

Why w people say WL is dying : because threads like this are actually replied to.

Yeah. You wanna know why you don't notice a lot of women in online games like this? Cause a fair majority of them (including me on occasion) pick masculine usernames and in the case of MMO's, choose male characters sometimes because it's easier to lie than it is to deal with the BS.

That may be a travesty, but you have to understand that most guys are tween - 20 somethings. There is no change in personality from rl to online, and instead they are 50x more vulgar.

I definitely agree with you there.

I think that stereotypes are actually good, because there is lot of truth in them.
It seems you want to abolish stereotypes, but they tell people what to expect.

For example I wouldn't be offended if someone called: these Polacks only drink.

I know many do!

This is stereotype, but it does mean a lot of Polacks drink, not necessarily all of them

Or this:

Chinese are hard-working,
White people are smart.

These are still stereotypes! Are stereotypes bad? Think about it

Edited 7/16/2015 05:15:03

I'm polish, and i find that offensive. I'm going to find where you live and beat the living hell out of you. I'll then gift you a potato. Two things will then happen :

You'll never eat the potato and instead it will haunt you due to the memory of me kicking your ass.

Or

You eat the potato and it becomes forever laced to your dna, meaning that the fear of me kicking your ass again will run through your blood.