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Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/1/2015 21:27:05


Hell
Level 5
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First answer decides important foreign policy!
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/1/2015 22:04:50

MrHymen
Level 56
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No
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/1/2015 22:32:41


Hell
Level 5
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***evil laughter***
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/1/2015 22:58:51


shyb
Level 59
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someone had to spend a lot of time sending repeated invites to everyone in warlight. they deserve to be number one.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 00:04:55

iamtaller
Level 52
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I never got an invite. :D
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 00:16:35


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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They are #1 (it is not any measure of a ranking)?

Or do you mean should they be listed first?

IMO (and most others), there should be a formula that ranks clans instead. But, Fizzer/Mercer don't have time to do the math on that (there are more important things to them on here...even as a clan leader I can recognize that). However, if someone on here did come up with a DETAILED and GOOD ranking system, I'm sure they'd adopt it. They just can't do all that legwork with bigger fish to fry.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 00:33:48


Genghis 
Level 54
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There could be 3 ranking systems. One could be how it is right now.

Another could be mean points per player.

The other could be mean ladder ranking.

Thoughts?
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 00:54:48


Dutch Desire
Level 59
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The clans should be ranked on how many points they have gathered in the last 30 days.

This will encourage players to score a lot of points and encourage clans to have active members.
Incurige of activity > more income out of the ads.

I don't think warlight should try to make a clan ranking based on what clan the best players/performance has.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 20:07:36


Fan the Apostle
Level 56
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There is bias in any ranking system . I don't have to explain. Logic
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 20:27:23


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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@Orange: It should be the average if each player's points, otherwise its just the system we have now, where largest active clan wins.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 22:04:01


Captain Trips 
Level 60
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someone please explain the system as it stands ... is it not the total combined points of all clan members?
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/2/2015 23:50:26


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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@Orange: It should be the average if each player's points, otherwise its just the system we have now, where largest active clan wins.


Not quite. His suggestions counts only points from the last 30 days, while the current counts all-time points.

This favors clans who have a large number of members (example: Vitrix, Wolves), as well as clans who have many players at higher levels (example: LEA, Illuminati)

This can be noticed by looking at rankings - masters have nearly no members but them all have insane points each. Darklords, on the other hand, are ranked #1 because they have a LOT of players, despite being mostly low levels.

Under Orange's suggestions, clans with large portions of inactive players or clans with lower income (due to not being competitive players and/or being Diplomacy clans)
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 00:03:33


Nex
Level 60
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someone please explain the system as it stands ... is it not the total combined points of all clan members?


That is correct.

Edited 7/3/2015 00:04:51
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 00:26:34


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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@Zephyrum: AH yeah, I was in a rush when I sent that, i meant Average of all players in the clan in the last 30 days.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 10:54:25


Darklordio
Level 56
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I have to say that I did put in lots of my time adding friends and targeting desirable players. Yes, numbers were my main objective.
DARKLORDS have the top spot.

WOO HAAA
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 11:57:44


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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In a different game I built a 1000 person clan just so we could be #1. People complained there too, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it, like someone said, there's always bias.

It just generally means more if a clan with less members is near the top (like it was in this other game)

Having activity over last 30 days, and maybe average per member could work too, it's always nice to have something to add competition between clans in games.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 15:20:19


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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I think Orange's suggestion is the best one.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 15:47:56

DanWL 
Level 62
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Can't clans be sorted by clan ID? It doesn't relay favor any clan, apart from when it was created.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/3/2015 22:53:48


shyb
Level 59
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it would be cool to be able to sort it a bunch of different ways. i'm curious to see who has the oldest members, best record at 1v1, team games, ffas, specifically by map, most points by average, most games, i could go on.

in fact it would be awesome to sort individuals this way too.

if i knew anything at all about computers i would attempt to make a code, or whatever it is people do on computers when they're not looking at porn.

I'm just a dummy though, so the best i can do is offer 20 bucks donation if someone wants to make this happen. i know that's chump change, but maybe others would be willing to pay up too :)
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 02:15:14


knyte 
Level 58
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Do people even go to the Clans page often enough for the clan sort order to matter? Most people don't know how to accept clan invites or navigate their way to a clan page just because Clans is a pretty weak feature that offers almost nothing by itself. You can sort clans based on the % of players whose real-life middle name begins with the letter "D" and I don't think it'll actually matter.

@shyb: That would be very easy to do, actually. Give me a second.

How do you want the data sorted? I'm busy this weekend (visiting family) but I can come up with a bunch of clan rankings if people just tell me what they want.

Edited 7/4/2015 02:18:06
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 08:17:11


Captain Trips 
Level 60
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you know I would like to see some of those stats as well ...maybe not so much as clan ranking systems but like an archives type menu... I agree also that any sort of competitive feature is an asset to the game . The system as it stands (thanks FK for confirming that) just so happens to be convenient for me or for us the LEA... speaking as a clan leader, that is , with a large number of members but with a discomforting number of inactives...I don't really care what system is used but I do think it should be something to be aware of and promoted as another something to be proud of or to brag about... I mean are we not here to cut loose , fight , brag , whine , bitch accuse , gossip , laugh , cry , fart , and ooze testosterone ... friggin "A" right we are and hell yeah it matters who is on the top of the clan page... so let this be a heads up Dark Lords .. Captain Trips and all my Gunslingers in the LEA are planning on sitting at the top of that list again and I don't think there is room for 2
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 08:23:59


Captain Trips 
Level 60
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oh yeah and for anybody that does not know how to accept an invite .. all you have to do is either go to the clan page in question or follow the link in the message that is sent to your real world e mail account ... if anybody wants to be considered for membership with the LEA please contact Dr. Stupid or myself... clan up people or be left behind

Edited 7/4/2015 08:24:39
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 10:45:10


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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I seem to be doing just fine without a clan, what exactly is the benefit?
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 13:26:45

[NL] Sander
Level 59
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If you only sort by average a clan with only a single person can become #1 as well.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 19:21:43


shyb
Level 59
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knyte, if it's just a one time thing i think the best stat to use would be all time points average. it's not even close to a good indicator of skill, but is better than what we have now.

if you were going all out though it would be awesome to see a list that was updated weekly with a number of stats and filters such as:

combined points average (all time and last 30 days)
number of games hosted
number of tournaments hosted
number of games played
all of those averaged for last 30 days and all time
average of record for 1v1, 2v2, etc
30 day average and all time clan forum posts (for those who want a super chatty clan)
all ladder averages

stats on more popular maps (ror, me, seasonal ladder maps 2v2 ladder map, and the more popular diplo maps to indicate what clans have more or less diplo players)
average age
most memberships
avg memberships
most map makers
avg and most maps made

and filters like:
exclude games with lotto and lottery in title
exclude people who have not been seen for 15/30/60 days
exclude custom scenario games

I'm imaging something similar to stats on sports sites. if individuals were included then people could compete and make goals to be the best at certain settings.

and it would let people see what clans are better/worse at, what they focus on etc.

this all probably a pipe dream. i imagine it would take some serious coding to approach the level of stats that are on mlb.com, but it would be a tremendous benefit to the game to have something like this.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 20:03:14


knyte 
Level 58
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@shyb: Expect something in a few days. I'm still working on a game/tournament/ladder analysis program I promised everyone a few weeks ago, but I'm currently having real-life issues so I can't get to this immediately. But (typical programmer answer, I guess) it's trivial and shouldn't take very long to accomplish once I write code to parse player and clan pages.

@Fleecemaster:

The WL clan system is very minimalistic and doesn't offer any intrinsic benefits. If you just join a clan, you really don't gain much. It's basically just a filtering system (you can filter players by clan name as well as name in WL's Search function when you create games) and a communication system. You also get a fancy little icon next to your name, but that's about it.

So clans are really a part of the metagame more than anything- all of their real advantages are player-created (which make sense, since the clan system allows players to form groups- and within these groups, they can do interesting things).

For example, there's a good number of clans that have at least a few players interested in strategy. Internally, these clans operate tournaments, ladders, and clan/inter-clan games. Moreover, these clans often organize inter-clan leagues or tournaments, the most famous of these being Clan League (about to enter its 7th season). There's also Clan Challenge League which is more template-focused.

Specifically, though, I can only really tell you the benefits for CORP since I haven't been in any other clans beyond T4R (long ago), The Lost Wolves (mostly inactive), and Darklords (for a few minutes, just to see what was up in their forums); clans weren't a feature I understood or took seriously until I joined CORP. Here's what I would stand to lose if I were to immediately quit CORP:

- Most importantly, the ability to fully participate in CORP's internal ladders/leagues, the CORP Strategic League (http://tinyurl.com/csldata) and the CORP Challenge League (http://tinyurl.com/corpcldata). Neither of these is fully developed (I'll automate them when I get back from vacation) but both are a reliable sources of good 1v1/2v2/3v3 strategic games and have had a demonstrable impact in the growth of our players.

- Membership in CORP's Scorpio Dojo chat, where we frequently discuss games, tournaments, and strategies

- The ability to partake in CORP internal tournaments, especially Scorpio's monthly 1v1 and 2v2 challenges

- Invites to CORP games and tournaments, including inter-clan games (currently ongoing with FBG, USSR, and TLW, although there are a few other clans on the list)

- Ability to view/add to the CORP Clanwide Blacklist, where we track players with blacklist-worthy offenses and try to collectively avoid them (so we don't have to each go through bad experiences with them individually)

The reason I'm answering your question is that, fundamentally, it's at the center of CORP's existence in particular. It's like, "Okay, we exist- now what can we actually do for our members as a clan?"

The answer is that the system isn't designed for us to do a whole lot. There's nothing in Warlight's codebase that makes joining a clan intrinsically a worthwhile decision.

But there is something in how social interactions work. When you form groups of people, these groups have a tendency toward either dying out (if no one gains anything from being part of the group) or doing worthwhile things. I mean, who wants to participate in a group that does nothing? So clans themselves tend toward either doing absolutely nothing and having no participation (a la Darklords) or doing a whole lot and having high participation (a la WM).

Edited 7/4/2015 20:03:47
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 20:24:11


Genghis 
Level 54
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Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/4/2015 20:32:33


Genghis 
Level 54
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P.s. Suck on that USSR clan, you're just a copycat, noobs.
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/5/2015 04:37:56


shyb
Level 59
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:) you are awesome, knyte. and that martin lawrence movie looks pretty good too...
Should the Darklords be #1 on clan page?: 7/5/2015 20:03:49


Genghis 
Level 54
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The joke is that I've "rebounded".
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