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Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 20:54:09


knyte 
Level 58
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Right now, the clan system has many issues, such as:

- the vulnerability of the manager system
- the inability to engage in "clan war" that doesn't involve just hijacking and destroying someone else's clan
- the inability to have recruiters who don't have absolute control over the clan as managers

There's an old uservoice that brings these up (and more issues) that could use your support:

https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/7085564-overhall-of-clan-system

However, since it's too broad (imho) and asks for a lot of things instead of just one, I've created two more specific uservoices for two things that I think are relatively simple to implement (not knowing the existing codebase of the WL system) that I also think would be more interesting or helpful to a greater number of players:

Clan Warfare: https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/7955619-create-a-clan-warfare-system

Improvement of the Clan Manager System: https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/7955508-add-a-hierarchical-clan-management-system

I would appreciate votes on these uservoices as well as discussion of the merits of these improvements in this thread.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 20:54:53


Nex
Level 60
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the inability to engage in "clan war" that doesn't involve just hijacking and destroying someone else's clan


Simple, join clan league. Whoever does better wins the war


Edit: I do agree with you on the management system, though. It would be great if a few weaknesses are shored up; for example, if the clan's only manager goes inactive then the clan goes extinct eventually. But as we've seen from past hijacking attempts, offering manager rights can backfire.

Edited 5/14/2015 20:56:38
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 20:57:29


carnivorouscarrot
Level 38
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That isn't enough for some people, because they didn't take anything away from the other clan. But hijacking a clan and taking control away from the leader is not a suitable means of inter-clan warfare.

Edited 5/14/2015 20:58:54
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 20:57:54


knyte 
Level 58
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I like Clan League and I've been trying to build a strategic culture within CORP with the aim of joining Clan League. However, even with Clan League, the prevalent idea of "clan war" is still to hijack clans.

I'm not making that suggestion because I want to see Clan Wars happen; I understand that I can just 1v1 people/etc.; however, there are other people whose idea of Clan War is simply to hijack clans (like mine was earlier today) and absent an official Clan War system I don't think there's going to be a way to stop this. Ask the four or five biggest clans what their idea of Clan War is right now, and they'll talk about hijacking each other or smaller clans- not Clan League.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 21:24:08

(retired)
Level 58
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Clan hijacking (too much already have been hijacked and this is quite easy to do that) will not encourage or stimulate people to buy a clan, you do not waste your money for something you are not sure to preserve, really something needs to be done...
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 22:47:07


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Actually, it will encourage even more since more folk (owners) are losing them and wanting to get a new one. And chances are, if they were willing to pay for one, they are more willing to pay for another.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 23:05:20

Xedrox
Level 56
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And that's why it won't be fixed. Money makes the world go round.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 23:10:27

(retired)
Level 58
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Well I do not believe that people disappointed by a first bad experience would try a second time to buy another clan, if people continue to complain and report what is bad or not working then less and less people would be willing to buy a clan, until it is fixed.

Edited 5/14/2015 23:12:05
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 23:27:25


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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Why are you giving manager rights away? Why do others even need the manager rights?
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/14/2015 23:39:07


Mercer 
Level 34
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Thanks for the awesome feedback Knyte. However we have limited time to develop all the features. We have a backlog of a year's worth of features. The priority right now is on new features that will increase revenue so that we can hire a second developer. With a second developer we could focus on more issues like this.

BTW, Knyte, What clan are you in? How about purchasing a membership. :)
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 01:10:47

[Falcon]The Polish Purple Bunny 
Level 55
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Could you try to split Manager Rights Fizzer? Please?

Edited 5/15/2015 01:19:37
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 06:58:24


knyte 
Level 58
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Mercer, I'm considering the membership just for the API privileges, but I still have to think about it a bit as I'm quite frugal (and need to be, given how much college costs now :().

Just out of curiosity, what stack is WL written in?
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 09:02:07

(retired)
Level 58
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Mercer, the clan which was hijacked is CORP (Coalition of Role Playing Friends), but we were really lucky to finally be able to take again control of our clan.

Now I will explain to Lolowut why we "gave manager rights away": actually we were first 4 historical managers (Kazuki being the leader) but 3 of us became inactive or too busy to keep the clan really working, so I had to find new managers to keep the clan alive (one of them being knyte).
Those new managers really helped to revive our clan, as we finally recruited new members, and they gave many good ideas to improve our clan (thinking of Tjoex) to restructure the clan and again improve it.
Unfortunately one of the new managers, The Lone Wolf, was the bad guy and planned to hijack the clan and take the clan for himself, hijacked clans is not a rare thing, many were already hijacked, and some like the UN clan or the Illuminati clan were never taken back by their founders (quite ironically CORP was founded after UN was hijacked as a "refugee clan" but they later made another new clan: the League of Nations).

That's why implement a split of manager rights to avoid any insane people to remove the founder would be a really good idea (people recruiting should only have the ability to recruit nothing more, people managing the clan should have the ability to only change the clan's page and rank/titles, and finally the founder who paid REAL MONEY should have some guarantees to keep his clan safe from any people having malicious intent and wanting to steal his clan), and I think (I am not a programmer but that's my opinion) to not difficult to make it.

Edited 5/15/2015 09:16:34
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 09:26:30


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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This isn't a problem for a lot of other clans. For example I've had control of the 101st clan since the clan system was introduced. Then I share the managers control of Lynx with 4-5 others. Same goes with clans like Apex, GG, blitz etc etc

Managers are responsible. There is a warning on the exact page. If any, the only thing that should be implemented is for managers to be able to take back control of what they purchased. This would resolve hijacking. But other features take priority..

Edited 5/15/2015 09:26:47
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 09:38:09

(retired)
Level 58
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@ Apollo

You are never 100% sure or safe to not be hijacked someday, I know some people who can cheat you easily because they made some perfect alts, some are patient and take months to be accepted in a clan and once they finally get manager rights they can remove all of you if they want it.

BTW, do you think we were like 20 managers? we were more or less 4-5 active managers, as for Apex, GG, blitz those clans I am always hearing of, they are not easily hijacked because their managers are, I believe, the same since the very start (as they were lucky to keep historical managers active) furthermore their recruitment is quite different from ours, as we are also a Role Playing clan we do not focus on few "elite" players, but we recruit motivated members who would participate actively in our clan.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 10:03:24


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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I'm 99% sure because the 101st is a strategic clan that does not get involved in squabbles like yours. I only accept managers that I trust anyhow. Though i have recently being trying to recruit a lot more players, there's always a slight risk.

That's my point, clans like us don't need it.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 10:26:27


knyte 
Level 58
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Not everyone needs home security either. Or insurance. That's not a good reason to not have it or to not implement it to begin with.

But I understand the issues. I believe this might be achievable through a third-party extension, however, so let me see if I can go about implementing that.

EDIT: Just to clarify things, CORP doesn't get involved in these "squabbles"- we don't go around like certain clans trying to hijack them. However, one clan did feel it was necessary to have another clan because someone approached them about wanting a clan and they decided this was a better alternative than paying WarLight for it so we were targeted. It's not because of any stupid "clan war" as much as it's because of our vaguer join criteria (how do you measure whether someone is a good RPer? Is there such a thing?) which makes it tougher to weed out players like the one who hijacked us.

Edited 5/15/2015 10:30:21
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 12:25:18


The Lone Wolf
Level 48
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As a defence for myself i didnt jack the clan
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 13:11:06


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I am going to try doing a clan ranking system (based on performance). I think that will help. Really, I think it is about the community supporting clans that try to do good things on here (you don't have to be competitive, just show class and respect). The trolls will go away if they are left behind.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 13:16:56


Genghis 
Level 54
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Ooh , ooh! Chris cmu, could you implement MY clan rating system ?!
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 13:41:58

MrHymen
Level 56
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How about purchasing a membership


Wow.. just wow....
Fix your broken ass game and then try and advertise your useless memberships.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 13:50:59


Lawlz
Level 40
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Wow.. just wow....
Fix your broken ass game and then try and advertise your useless memberships.
Wow.. Just wow....
Fix your broken ass attitude and then try to leave a comment.

Don't be a bitch, cherry. You still use their game and if you don't like it, you can leave. Nobody will miss you or that attitude youre bringing towards a barely successful indie game and its 2 developers.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 13:53:27


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I don't think the game is broken at all, in fact I appreciate it a lot.

But he does bring up a valid point about the membership. They are pretty much useless right now unless you are a new player and don't want to level up before joining the ladders. This has been talked about a lot, but since there are no member only perks anymore...it is completely useless for those who are already leveled up. I don't mind supporting the game with my $30, but Mercer suggesting a membership to someone who is level 55 is pretty short sighted. Offer some member only perks if you want people to buy them.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 14:21:00


knyte 
Level 58
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I agree with the last two comments. I am not in any way trying to discredit the immense amount of work put in by the WL development team (AKA Fizzer).

Actually, for me, the API alone would justify a membership. I'm very close to the edge since that would solve a lot of problems by allowing me to develop and test a third party extension. The issue is that I could also do that without the API, just in a jankier way.

It would be cool if WL were more friendly to independent developers.

Edited 5/15/2015 14:21:32
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 14:53:30


Poseidó̱nas
Level 57
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It isn't the system's fault your clan was "hijacked" it is the fault of the managers/owner you are told quite explicitly to only give rights to those you 100% trust, it's clearly a user error.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 15:03:38


knyte 
Level 58
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I'm not blaming the system for the hijacking.

I've got an issue that said disclaimer needs to exist and that it forces managers into very interesting positions. Most other games with Clan systems have implemented hierarchical management.
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 15:17:44

MrHymen
Level 56
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Don't be a bitch, cherry. You still use their game and if you don't like it, you can leave. Nobody will miss you or that attitude youre bringing towards a barely successful indie game and its 2 developers.


Hence why I give my 100% honest opinion. Memberships are useless right now and advertising them in an off-topic way in the middle of the forums is unacceptable from a developer (Or "Warlight Experience Officer") and will turn people away because all they will see is "$$$$$" coming from the creator side rather than seeing them do their job.

Edited 5/15/2015 15:20:10
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 15:53:11


Lawlz
Level 40
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-However we have limited time to develop all the features.

-We have a backlog of a year's worth of features.

-The priority right now is on new features that will increase revenue so that we can hire a second developer.

-With a second developer we could focus on more issues like this.
learn2read you selfish ass
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 15:56:58

MrHymen
Level 56
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learn2read you selfish ass


The game has been around long enough for things such as a Good Second Developer to be sourced, for free if they actually looked hard enough.

I know what coding entails, I know how hard and stressful it can be which is why I don't give Fizzer or Mercer any sympathy. A lot of the problems they have with time come down to their time-management being dreadful.

Anyway, what's got you all hot and bothered? You're making this seem like I'm personally offending you. Do you need a hug?
Request: Fix and improve the Clan system: 5/15/2015 16:01:05


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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It would be cool if WL were more friendly to independent developers.


This is a good point. I would love to do some CLOT's, and I want to do stuff with the clan ranking and many other ideas I have. The CLOT framework is VERY bare bones though. I wish it had more 'out of the box' like a rating system and not just a total wins setup. I don't have the time to figure that out, even though I am sure I could. I'm too busy running clan league, other custom leagues, trying to improve the forums, teaching noobs off and on, making suggestions to improve the game, making maps, etc.

People are here to help but it can be difficult for some of us developers to actually make something for WL staff to evaluate.
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