Shortly I joined the ladder games (since last season) and some things are for me hard to understand and therefore I 'ld like to propose some changes:

The hardest part the 1 day + initial +2 days extra boot rate: this seems fine in the beginning, but when the game progresses I get less and less time to play the seasonal ladder games each turn. I know this topic is already discussed in another topic, but personal if this is going on for a longer time then I'm forced to quit to avoid to be booted. playing 15-25 games does not combine well with 5 ladder games with 1 day boot.

Because Ladders is a player skill competition I believe the ladders should be pure skill, so all the luck settings should be gone, I'm annoyed that with the 16% luck and a change of 83% taking a crucial territory and I failed, which has influence on the outcome of the game.

I'm annoyed that in this season the 1 bonusses are gone this makes them useless wastelands. It just makes the map far more fun if all the bonusses are present

It would be nice if the ladder players have the opportunity to vote for the template for next season

I just started and encounter 62-64 level players in the first 5 games and 1 level 60 player while I'm level 57, is there a reason for this or play only 60+ players in this ladder. I've to say I learn a lot, but I noticed it comes down to those settings which introduces the luck factor.

Out of the box: Why every time the same map, would be more fun if every game has another map.

Shortly, I'm losing a lot due to to strong level 60+ opponents and stressed out to play the games on time, let's see if anything will change soon, otherwise I'll leave the ladder.

There's going to be a poll, that's where we can voice our opinions on this

Agree though, you either have to go down to 2 games at once, focus on 1 ladder only, stop playing other WZ games, or quit the ladders, this 1 day boot junk is garbage

Bank time wont help, need more standard boot time

Out of the box: Why every time the same map, would be more fun if every game has another map.

If you want a variety of good templates (and normal boot times), consider joining the MTL!

Sign up today at http://md-ladder.cloudapp.net/ !

@Graaf Reinoud I

games does not combine well with 5 ladder games with 1 day boot.

▶ I agree with you but let me share Fizzer's perspective (from what I understood);

1) Rewards are distributed weekly, a game (for me) takes on average 10-15 turns. If every turn takes 2-3 days, a match will go on for 20-45 days. Fizzer needed to make games last for 5-7 days so that every week people will have updated rating and get their rewards or trophy accordingly.

2) Fizzer wants quick thinking and let players small mistakes to make the games more dynamic. He doesn't want try-hards who thinks for hours before making a move (ironically he also wants to make ladders the ultimate strategic competition in WZ).

3) He wants people to dedicate themselves on ladders. If you don't have the time to play ladders consistently, you can stop playing it until you have the consistent time & determination. Your rank will not depreciate over time so you can stop when you don't have time, and resume when you have time again.

▶ I personally think the boot time should be increased because;
1) All events are more interesting when there is more participation (more boot-time will increase participation)
2) As we play stuff other than ladder, games accumulate which makes harder to have enough time to play ladder
3) Very experienced players can make informed decisions quicker than average players, this makes it unfair for average players

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vote for the template for next season

▶ Yea, Beren can provide the options and players can vote for the templates

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is there a reason for this or play only 60+ players in this ladder.

▶ Unlike QM, there is a level prerequisite for participating in ladders. Only high level players can join anyways so this is normal

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would be more fun if every game has another map

▶ As JK pointed out, there is such ladder called MTL (Multi-template Ladder), you can sign up & play

Correction: In seasonal ladders rewards are not distributed weekly. But still shorter boot-times means more games which means more accurate ratings...

I just started and encounter 62-64 level players in the first 5 games and 1 level 60 player while I'm level 57, is there a reason for this or play only 60+ players in this ladder. I've to say I learn a lot, but I noticed it comes down to those settings which introduces the luck factor.

Meh, you probably shouldn't care too much about level. It does not count for that much, only that you have played a lot of games.

have to go down to 2 games at once

I don't know about the seasonal ladder, but that is no longer an option in the 1v1 ladder, smallest amount of games is 3, which only makes the boot time problem even worse


I appreciate VERAVARI's efforts to bring up Fizzer's points from the last AMA in order to debate here. I apologize if it's derailing the thread a bit, but the creator of it brought it up himself, and I think some additional things can be said about it in response to VERAVARI/Fizzer

Fizzer wants quick thinking and let players small mistakes to make the games more dynamic. He doesn't want try-hards who thinks for hours before making a move (ironically he also wants to make ladders the ultimate strategic competition in WZ)

Yup, sure is ironic. You can either have one or the other. If Fizzer wants to make the 1v1 ladder the staple of strategic success, then he should model it after the MTL, which is designed to be the-1v1-ladder-but-better in many ways, by good players, for good players, and which is currently closest to the peak of competitive success in the game. As with the old 1v1 ladder, the current ladder still has MTL as an alternative for players who are actually interested in rising to the top. I would understand if Fizzer aimed to make the 1v1 ladder more of a participation-based competition just as Clan Wars (which many top players seem to not take too seriously for that reason), but you can either focus on making it more strategic or more activity based, and it seems that the ladder is going in the latter direction, which in turn makes it less welcoming to strategic players broadly speaking (of course, some people won't be affected because they can play fast and/or like the shorter boot time)

He wants people to dedicate themselves on ladders. If you don't have the time to play ladders consistently, you can stop playing it until you have the consistent time & determination. Your rank will not depreciate over time so you can stop when you don't have time, and resume when you have time again.

That, much like the boot time (I would think), only lowers the ladder player pool, since many people cannot or don't want to play it consistently, or can commit to a lower amount of games, or can only guarantee consistency if the boot time is higher etc. Points to direction of activity at the expense of strategy

I agree with 1) and 2) as reasons for why I think boot time should be increased, apart from the idea that I have mentioned myself, which could be best summarized as - if the 1v1 ladder is to be the peak of strategic achievement, it should cater to its target audience, that is, people who want to be highly competitive (which has shown recently on forums that the vast majority of it dislikes the boot time changes)

3) is a new point and I don't really agree, simply because I think players who are good are always in an advantageous position in comparison to worse players and I think it's a stretch to say that the boot time makes it even harder for worse players

But yeah, Graaf, I suggest you try out the Multi-Template Ladder, it's community-run and has lots of different maps and no shorter boot time: http://md-ladder.cloudapp.net/

> Because Ladders is a player skill competition I believe the ladders should be pure skill, so all the luck settings should be gone, I'm annoyed that with the 16% luck and a change of 83% taking a crucial territory and I failed, which has influence on the outcome of the game.

No. To basically all of that. Pure Skill is garbage, there's skill involved in determining when you have first order, or in templates with random order, finding orders that work well regardless of whether you get first order or not.