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Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 09:01:29


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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Strategy-inclined people and template designers: What's the challenge with putting Commanders into conventional strategic templates?

There's a tiny but sometimes painful flaw in the typical strat game in that the game is typically decided many turns before it ends on elimination and we all have to count on our opponents to recognize when the game is decided and surrender out of courtesy. But Commanders fix that- you lose when your Commander dies, typically you're still in the game while your Commander's alive, and since a 7-stack that can only be killed all at once is really nice at all phases of the game, you can't just put Commanders far behind the frontlines.

So what have been the challenges with building strat templates around Commanders? What are the problems to solve? Are there inherent issues with Commanders themselves? The biggest Commanders template, MME Commanders LD No Cards, also kind of drags on in spite of having Commanders- is this due to some challenge around Commanders or just a quirk of the template? It would be cool if we were able to turn conventional strategic Warlight into a game that, more like chess, often (or typically) ends when the game's outcome is decided.
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 11:43:01


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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i would guess it's same reason comp doesn't like local deployment or randomized bonus or any other setting that adds layer to the strategy
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 11:48:29


Rufus 
Level 63
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I see 2 problems with commander games off the top of my head:

1) You can't have One Army Must Stand Guard with it.

2) You include another luck factor by which you can expand without a cost of armies, while your opponent plays more safely and adds them. There is also a case of running into a stack and losing your commander, but that might be considered strategic to some extent.

Edited 8/16/2022 11:49:35
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 12:29:09


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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To create on your own games with Commanders you need a Membership.
Commanders are actually only available for a minority of the community in terms of creating those games or new templates.

(The fan base amongst strat players might would be bigger if it would be available for more players to create games with it.)

Edited 8/16/2022 12:33:28
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 12:49:31


καλλιστηι 
Level 61
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Make a good strategic template with commanders and we can start talking.
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 12:52:00

#BanPlajer 
Level 61
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Point 2 from Rufus that's why: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=29747737, that game was decided many turns before I lost, and I should won it.

I don't like commanders personally (It just means i can not play with right strategy).
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 16:14:32


Derfellios 
Level 61
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i would guess it's same reason comp doesn't like local deployment or randomized bonus or any other setting that adds layer to the strategy

The reason randomized bonuses are not used is not about "adding an extra layer of strategy". It is simply hard to create games with them on CLOTS, tourneys, and QM. It is mostly restricted to members or paying coins for non-members, and member-only templates are seldom popular (mods, bomb card etc.) To get something to be popular, more people have to be able to play them.
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 19:49:15


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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i thought randomized was in the mtl, i am fairly sure there are work arounds. you have to be member to create the game but not play
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 20:28:10


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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Sure you can play member settings, when members create it. But that is not really helpful create games with your friends. Do you always want to ask others to create a game for you?

I think in general Commanders are something you know it is there. You have seen it somewhere (QM, various tournaments), but if you dont know how to include it into your game, you dont give it more attention.

Edited 8/16/2022 20:33:15
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 20:37:39


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 62
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Otherway around I try to set up tournaments with templates, where I know if someone copy the template he can create a game himself without buying any. With Commanders in the setting, I would get questions how I have made it work.
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 21:28:09


JK_3 
Level 62
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i thought randomized was in the mtl, i am fairly sure there are work arounds. you have to be member to create the game but not play

It is, but the MTL doesnt use mods to randomise bonuses, because that would be way too expensive.

It works around the issue of having non-members play modded games by programmatically overwriting each bonus at random before the game is created without using a mod in the game.
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 22:44:34


καλλιστηι 
Level 61
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CLOT can create commander (and bomb) games for free. For non-members. By non-member.
Though your opponent must join via CLOT. And you must get a member to send you the template.
This makes commander and bomb templates for CL or other strategic competitions possible since technically anybody can train as long as they have with whom.

Edited 8/16/2022 22:54:41
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/16/2022 23:46:27


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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i think the point i was trying to make is it should be played more in the "strat" scene... it is maybe not so accessible as other vanilla templates, but it may be played by non-members

commanders add depth in the sense you have more layers of strategy to think about, but as others have said there are limitations and maybe it is not so strategical. a good example is when you combine commander and multi attack you get a broken template which might say the movement is more luck based
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/17/2022 00:41:30


καλλιστηι 
Level 61
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When you combine pretty much anything with MA, you get a broken template.
Why aren't Commanders used more in strat?: 8/17/2022 00:51:22

Sanctuary kill 
Level 47
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I would say the reason I do not use them for the most part is that my favorite strategy diplomacy games are The more chaotic type where people can backstab and there’s many rules on declaring war as in like waiting a few turns and it sucks if your ally could just stab you in the back and kill your commander which I have seen before in my mega games I often use big maps where players are just stuck in little spaces sometimes having a commander somebody could easily backstab and wipe out a whole army
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