tsfh is having a cyber bullying gaming moment

tsfh is having a cyber bullying gaming moment

1- this was no MISTAKE
anymore than saying any1 can fall in tempation of stealing a car, under the right opportunity, sure, but guess what, even if they were then caught, and AVOIDED JAIL with the best lawyers in the world, he would never be allowed to KEEP THE CAR. so...
2 - how is this 'public shaming' unfair or uncalled for, when he was the 1st person, in my own experience, who used to do this to even STRANGERS in global, making a list of all and grade ppl based on their CHAT BEHAVIOUR, now from becoming this self-appointed and self-righteous 'judge' to criminal, on even the exact same matter (CHAT).
3 - there was little public shaming in fact tho, other than stating the truth about a cheater. most importantly, there was NO WITCH HUNT lol. would it be a witch hunt if i saw a guy doing some crime, and i simply asked him, are you stealing that ol' lady, and he simply ran off..? on a number of occasions? also, if given enough time after precisely NOT directly confronting him or call na,mes or shame, you get PROOF, and he still denies it till the very last moment he's condemned? also, he didnt kept on doing it cuz he thought he'd get away with it nor by 'mistake', he just wanted to steal as much as possible till he went to jail, i guess to pay for good lawyers or allies, or even perhaps to spend what he had already unfairly gained, who knows...
4 - I see some ppl can even see how 'he changed name' as a bad thing, like a punishment, as if, 'the witchunters made me do it, im such a victim', well tbh, whether you gave your coins back or not (and i doubt u gave the whole ammount you benefitted to all the victims, also most likely because you might've spent it overtime too) chaging name is something you chose to do to RELIEF YOURSELF of some judgement, personally, i think you shouldnt even had changed your names to get away that easy, now even pretending to be some1 else to any1 new, instead, you should forever be stuck with Nonolet and Uno's names to be forever remembered as 'Nono the self-righteous S-hole who DECIDED to openly steal from all for as long as he could', not as a poor victim caught by a still slightly flawed system, one which you CHOSE to abuse, when all can, but most are DECENT PEOPLE not to. you, of all players, should know better. there's no point in playing victim now, nor pointing fingers at, for example, lv4 for showing us proof, when it wasnt even himself the one who first caught you or confronted you, he just exposed you for who you are because you kept on openly stealing, after already been caught, just because you feel to be so godamn above every1 else around. plz, sincerely, now add yourself to your santa's bad-chat-behaviour list. you deserve it more than any1. thanks all!

Edited 10/14/2021 18:47:11

tsfh has dissolved itself and does not exist anymore.

@ Loxiiv, Rick Sanchez

shouting slogans in a choir makes you the bullies. If you have nothing of sense to contribute to a discussion about a very serious matter better stay quiet.

@investment
1. nobody stole anything. You are a victim of l4av.r0v's manipulation of the situation.
2. public shaming is always unfair. Because a formed strong opinion overshadows the facts
3. nono apologized, but some players decided to react strongly to it, demanding further sanctions based of some feeling of self-justice.
4. read points 1-3

parsifal pls do not bully or try to intimidate people in thr forums, we can post what we want. I need not take instructions from you whether to be quiet or not.

Edited 10/14/2021 19:05:25

Rick Sanchez pls do not bully or try to intimidate me in the forums, I will strongly articulate my opinion and I won't stay silent in front of a mobbing against another player. Doesn't matter what the reason is.

If you are misusing this forum to troll, I will comment on that as well

The data could be given to a mod for,the prosecution.

This has been attempted before. It doesn't work- even posts about how it doesn't work get deleted (https://www.warzone.com/Forum/570995-message-considered-toxic?Offset=4). Absent transparency and public awareness, the moderation system faces no incentives to carry out the best interests of the community; rather, it tends to enforce the personal whims of an unaccountable moderator class with personal axes to grind against specific players. Rick got a 3-day suspension (extended to 6 days) for "Nazi symbolism"; he posted a single photo of swastika-shaped Dharmic temple, on a site where "Adolf Hitler" is an explicitly protected username. Prior to that, he got a permanent ban because he was "actually asking" to be banned (because Fizzer had misread "If Fizzer doesn't ban you"), which would never have been fixed had the details not been made public. Fizzer of course rationalizes these by saying he's got a "long criminal record" (like Boston?) but that's the rub: this criminal record is not auditable anywhere (due to policies against transparency around "discipline"), not even by Rick, and so the userbase just takes his lies at face value.

Neither of these went through the 2-day slow process JK describes. It's abundantly clear what the moderation system actually does on this site, and it's not actually serving the community or benefiting the player base. I get a DM telling me to "quit Warzone" for supporting cheating (another apparent failure of reading comprehension); meanwhile, actual cheating rarely, if ever, gets actioned against. The priorities are clear, and they're not the priorities of the community. Absent transparency, Fizzer has two easy options: just ignore stuff like this, or come to this thread, respond once with a smattering of lies about what's in the non-public record, and lock it if he feels like it. Or redirect the conversation to unrelated "crimes" (maybe his habitual search for someone saying the n-word will have results this time). Or delete the thread. Absent transparency, he gets away with lie after lie, hiding behind his "authority" and facing no accountability due to a strong benefit of the doubt.

There's a reason the real-world criminal justice system has transparency and audtability- and it's the same reason Warzone doesn't (and actively refuses to introduce these concepts).

Only user-driven transparency can fix what we have. In this case, rather than driving nonolet to suicide (like in Parsifal's very active imagination), it's added to the public record and spurred discussion.

---

You are a victim of l4av.r0v's manipulation of the situation.

If you're going to preach about not making public accusations of bad behavior, at least stop maligning me with wildly speculative unsubstantiated claims of ill intent.

a formed strong opinion overshadows the facts

This is beyond ironic. We have an absurdly large body of facts and instead you've decided to ignore them and speak out against the messenger due to a strong opinion that I suspect was formed by poorly-substantiated and secondhand conversations about me behind my back (e.g., TSFH Clan Chat).

a part of the European culture and not the American one

There's a reason American society is far more prosperous than European, and it goes directly to our liberal democratic values, including our near-absolute protections for free speech. But your point about laws isn't pertinent: European laws generally create more stringent requirements on those hosting online public spaces, so, between the two, if Fizzer does shut down public discussion of cheating, it's more likely you'd find a legal basis to challenge it in EU law than in American law (although neither is likely), because American law is very laissez-faire around how companies like Warzone.com, LLC, operate on the market, trusting the competitive free market to solve consumers' problems better than most regulatory approaches.

Neither European nor American laws, however, prevent people from public discussions of wrongdoing. If you're looking for legal frameworks that might agree with your stance on what people can speak publicly about, you should look at India's, where truth is not an absolute defense against claims of defamation (because Indian political philosophy includes protections against social death under its framing of the right to life).

Of course, as you seem to understand, in general the ordering of these places (India, Europe, the US) by quality of life for a reasonably economically productive individual is inversely correlated with the degree to which their legal frameworks align with your personal philosophy. In a way, your attitudes around societal design have been tested repeatedly in the real world and they don't actually work. This is unsurprising, of course, since decentralized and open societies have vast structural advantages, especially in the realm of economic production but also in their ability to provide fairness, justice, and quality of life in the the long term for maximally large populations of humans. In the real world, transparency provides value while appeals to authority lead to failed societies. In the United States, for example, public criticism of government officials, law enforcers, and even judges of the law has led to vast, concrete, long-term improvements in the ability of our society to pursue its ambitious goals; in societies where people respect the absolute "authority" of law enforcement to the point of refraining from criticism or even public discussion of active or resolved cases, you get societies like the former East Germany, where erosion of checks and balances led to an incentive structure which lost track of the responsibilities of government and not only failed its citizens but actually dehumanized them.

If you want to get philosophical about how society should work and how people should behave in them, there's millennia of discussion and centuries of experimental results you should stop ignoring. The societies that build themselves around your view of the world tend to fail. Even here, we see your proposed approach fail miserably and the one you criticize far outperform it. The theoretical risks you conjure don't occur: nonolet is just fine and free to insult others like me (you don't seem to have any concern about who takes responsibility for yours and nonolet's random accusations). The actual harms you ignore have: a quarter of the raffles in the month of September had a participant who'd nearly doubled his odds (on average, 1.73x).

nonolet gets zero consequences for cheating, and you're concerned about whether those who brought this matter to light are going to be held responsible. You'd fit right in, in an Indian panchayat.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 19:58:30

Why are lavrovs posts always so long I cannot get myself to read it? I can't recall finishing reading one of his posts

Why are lavrovs posts always so long I cannot get myself to read it? I can't recall finishing reading one of his posts

That's a very productive, respectful, and topical deflection.

But since you asked, it's by design. I've noticed Fizzer tends to skim over (or just not read/understand) longer content (see: the INSS debacle, where he repeatedly responded to only the first sentence until I broke it down into picture book format; his understanding of the Activision lawsuit; most of the content on https://reddit.com/u/fickerra, including his little fight with /u/wilfra), so I gamble on this reading comprehension hypothesis to make my posts less likely to be quietly deleted or result in arbitrary suspensions. So far it's been wildly successful, in conjunction with Damocles. Beyond the moderation defense benefit, it also helps prevent off-topic discussions because people like you typically give up and don't respond rather than derail the discussion. The idea is to create posts that organically filter out low-value respondents.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 20:07:07

I have enjoyed reading his long posts on this thread, he writes really well and in an engaging way

Thank you, Rick.

I've been told I'm a very good writer both times I penned suicide notes (don't worry, this was years ago, and I realized that if I had a problem with the world it makes far more sense to eliminate it, not me). Must mean something when someone reads something like that and their first response is to tell me that, if I wrote a book, they would buy it. Then again, maybe they were just being nice because I was suicidal at the time. Or maybe I'd tricked them into it through my expert sociopathic social engineering skills that abusers and their enablers seem to always find in me.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 20:14:26

knyte i always knew you are the criminal mastermind drug kingpin and that you're playing us all like a fiddle

here is your real identity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKrCs1rFRI

Edited 10/14/2021 20:21:21

@l4v.r0v

I just love the hole you are digging to yourself!

1. inviting players to a game called "nonolet victim restitution fund" is a clear manipulation. No one is actually a victim, and pretending to know exactly how many coins each player could have "lost" is another clear manipulation.
2. you have facts, but you chose not to present them all. Like for example forgetting to make clear that winning a lottery with your alt can't really benifit your main account on idle. By ommitting some of the facts you are creating a strong opinion that supports your point of view.
3. love it how you stand for free speech and American liberalism, but chose to nickname yourself after a russian minister of foreign affairs, a well-known liberal! By the way, public shaming was used on daily basis in the Soviet Union. A country known for its freedom of speech.
4. Freedom of speech is of a great value, but so do other human rights. Offending one right in favour of an other is not a good case for a good society.
5. "prosperous"- laughing out loud. Define prosperous! I don't have the time to discuss with you the differences between the american and european penal systems. But 650 incarcerated per 100,000 us citizens in compare to only 110 europeans is some prosperity!

l4v.r0v, I'm done arguing with you. I tried to make a point about being careful with public trials, and that when you unleash the public-shaming force you can't control it any longer, thus potentially inflicting more damage than the original deed.
You want to be defensive about it? it's your right.
You aren't a little bit concerned about the amount of hatred your post started among the players? I wish you'll never find yourself on the other side, because it just sucks

No one is actually a victim, and pretending to know exactly how many coins each player could have "lost" is another clear manipulation.

For each raffle you enter, there's a reward. Let's say 6 coins. Which means you have an expected value (or expected reward) since raffles are fair and random: if 5 players join, you all have 1.2 expected coins each from joining the raffle. If one player joins twice, they gain an additional 0.8 expected coins at the cost of 0.2 expected coins to the other 4 entrants.

This allows us to model the (expected) impact of double-joins on raffle, and this is what I did. It's clearly not a perfect model. Like you seem to understand, raffles' outcomes don't converge with their expected values until there's a lot of raffles; nonolet/#Uno/unoturbo/JennyA, for example, won significantly more than his expected coins, so from that perspective my restitution calculations are conservative estimates. A more conservative estimate could be reached by looking at just JennyA's winnings, but that'd actually be an overestimate because JennyA joining a raffle decreases nonolet's expected rewards on his main.

If you've got a better idea on how to model this, I'm all ears. However, I can't think of anything else that doesn't require reverse-engineering the RaffleBot random number generator and simulating a few hundred raffles to see what the actual outcomes would have been in the alternate universe where nonolet continued to play fair.

Like for example forgetting to make clear that winning a lottery with your alt can't really benifit your main account on idle

This is an analysis. I cannot possibly precompute and provide all possible observations from the data I share. I believe this observation, however, was amply clear from the presentation itself (which shows the impact on nonolet's and JennyA's expected winnings from double-raffling), and as you know I have never denied or attempted to bury this analysis.

but chose to nickname yourself after a russian minister of foreign affairs

This is an incredible stretch. In no way have I endorsed or do I endorse Sergey Lavrov, nor was he the direct inspiration for my username.

By the way, public shaming was used on daily basis in the Soviet Union. A country known for its freedom of speech.

And Stalin wore pants every day of his life. I'm wearing pants now. Could this be mere coincidence?

But 650 incarcerated per 100,000 us citizens in compare to only 110 europeans is some prosperity!

Yes, the consequences of a justice system that relaxed its accountability and transparency, mainly during the War on Drugs, "tough on crime", and War on Terror eras. The main force driving us in the other direction? Transparency and criticism of public officials and law enforcement, rather than deferring to their authority.

I'm done arguing with you.

Thank you. I appreciate you finding something better to do with your time than insulting a stranger for exposing your online friend's cheating.

Like awaythro put it, nothing quite says remorse like taking pot-shots at the person who found you out.

You aren't a little bit concerned about the amount of hatred your post started among the players? I wish you'll never find yourself on the other side, because it just sucks

No, because the vast majority of hatred and insults arising from my actions have been from players like you, nonolet, and Ursus taking every opportunity to ridicule or attack my character without any serious attempt at substantiation, respect, or responsiveness. Unlike the stuff on nonolet, what Ursus randomly said about me- ridiculing my verbosity- is stuff that even sticks, within this morally compromised community, and certainly doesn't get held to the same standard of "respectful language" as I would if I stooped to your level when highlighting nonolet's incompetence at cheating. If you're not going to be concerned about the random lies you attack me with, for which you face far less accountability than I do, surely I don't need to be even as cautious as I am when spreading largely verifiable truths.

The incentives work out really well here. My only viable path is transparency. Unlike the authority you appeal to, I can't just delete posts, lock threads, search players' past chat and forum logs for discrediting quotes. My only weapon is spreading the truth. Even when I share well-substantiated and objectively true information, people like you are there to take me to task for it! So if I lie, I shoot myself in the foot. When your authority lies, people presume he's telling the truth (because they can't check the record themselves); when it comes out later he was lying, it's easy enough to minimize when you control the platform and can apply selective moderation, threatening messages, and other tools to generate chilling effects against those who hold you accountable. Do you know why common law societies developed public trials as standard procedure for handling accusations? It's because doing this stuff in public creates the exact right incentives and gives reason- not arbitrary rule, not corruption, not social capital- the chance to have a little bit of an effect. The public forum is foundational to any serious pursuit of justice.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 21:17:11

ha, l4v.r0v against fizzer, TSFH and world. supported by Rick Sanchez/Loxiiv (now i am sure they are one person). and fabulous KG. a murder of ravens. congratulations! have a nice day!

Edited 10/14/2021 21:19:05

ha, l4v.r0v against fizzer, TSFH and world

One of those is already dismanted. One of them is under active investigation by multiple US law enforcement agencies. The third, I'm still working on.

Rick Sanchez/Loxiiv (now i am sure they are one person). and fabulous KG. a murder of ravens.

Nothing quite says "apology" and "let's not have witch hunts" like flinging unsubstantiated character attacks at those who found out your cheating (and bringing in uninvolved parties like Loxiiv and KG).

nonolet, when are you going to follow through on your token gesture to restitute those who lost coins to your cheating? You owe at least 148 coins to 141 unique accounts; here's the list- you don't need to wait for them to ask, unless you're trying to save your cheat coins: https://bit.ly/nonolet-victims

Of course, you probably disagree with the accounting there. You could go by actual damages: JennyA won at least 222 coins during your double-raffles, and another 1130 coins' worth of non-coin rewards. Of course, you probably disagree with that too, because you'd rather keep those gains and not part with that many coins. Do you have an alternative model in mind?

I doubt you do, because the plan was clearly to just make the offer and never seriously follow through on it. A token gesture for a token apology, in which you can bury character attacks against those who caught you.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 22:23:23

haha l4v.r0v dont need your list, nor your "suggestions". i have a pretty good idea what i am going to do to redistribute the coyns. it will be a good event. fun for all but you and your ilk. :-)

i have a pretty good idea what i am going to do to redistribute the coyns. it will be a good event. fun for all but you and your ilk. :-)

Good, looking forward to the free-to-join 1071-coin reward tournament. Well, it'll be a little more than that, since you kept on raffling all the way through at least yesterday, and my own accounting only goes through 09/25. You can ask JK for the full logs.

By the way, you owe me personally 3.27 coins, so you can take that off the coin prize for the tourney and create a 4-coin reward free-to-join game. Thanks. I'm glad to see you finally taking action after you get publicly called out. Noticing a pattern.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 21:44:05

ha, l4v.r0v against fizzer, TSFH and world
One of those is already dismanted. One of them is under active investigation but multiple US law enforcement agencies. The third, I'm still working on.

Needless to say Knyte had nothing to do with either of these transpiring.

Also, Inxs - I did not take their coins so do not feel like you owe them any coins for my sake.

What i find the most humorous myself is those of us that play in the most raffles, care the least and visa versa.... if you barely participate in the raffles to begin with what are you so upset about?